Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

thirdcrank
Posts: 28049
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Nov 2018, 7:54pm

(Sorry for the link to the Daily Mail, but it seems to be the most detailed report of this.)

Nick Freeman, AKA Mr Loophole, is reported as saying that the "exceptional hardship" legislation, which allows many drivers to avoid totting up driving bans is bad law.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hange.html

Mr Freeman was speaking out after DVLA figures revealed a staggering 10,964 drivers across the country have avoided a driving ban despite having more than 12 points on their licence

One unnamed driver from the West Midlands, identified as the country's worst serial offender, has a shocking 54 points on his licence and yet is still allowed to drive.

Bez
Posts: 1136
Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 10:41am
Contact:

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Bez » 1 Nov 2018, 8:01pm

I’m compelled to wonder what is the ulterior motive here.

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby meic » 1 Nov 2018, 8:12pm

I have heard him saying the same sort of thing before.
I dont know if he is being disingenuous but what he says (paraphrasing) is that he is doing a service by pointing out bad law when he "gets people off" and it is the law's job to correct the law to stop him doing so.
Putting the blame on them for writing bad law, and not on him for following it.
Yma o Hyd

pete75
Posts: 10671
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby pete75 » 1 Nov 2018, 8:34pm

meic wrote:I have heard him saying the same sort of thing before.
I dont know if he is being disingenuous but what he says (paraphrasing) is that he is doing a service by pointing out bad law when he "gets people off" and it is the law's job to correct the law to stop him doing so.
Putting the blame on them for writing bad law, and not on him for following it.


The whole point of the criminal justice system and those who work in it is to follow the law as it is be it good or bad. If he, as an officer of the court, failed to do that then he would be blameworthy.
Laws work both ways. The public are supposed to follow the law and so are those that enforce them.

MikeF
Posts: 3680
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby MikeF » 2 Nov 2018, 9:16am

Bez wrote:I’m compelled to wonder what is the ulterior motive here.
Me too!
He said: 'We`re now facing ridiculous scenarios where multiple offences committed by an individual driver are bundled together so they are dealt with in one court.

'The 'hardship argument' is then used as a piece of umbrella mitigation to cover all these offences which, in totality, would net vast numbers of points.
What are these multiple offences that 10,000+ drivers have committed?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Bez
Posts: 1136
Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 10:41am
Contact:

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Bez » 2 Nov 2018, 9:46am

MikeF wrote:What are these multiple offences that 10,000+ drivers have committed?


Exceptional hardship is available only in the context of "totting up", ie where a driver has accumulated 12 points on their licence and is thus facing an automatic ban. (It isn't available where a ban is part of a sentence for a single offence; eg the mandatory ban for causing death by dangerous driving or an optional ban for careless driving.) So the offences are any which incur points: the most common will be exceeding the speed limit, but there are numerous others such as driving whilst drunk, having unroadworthy tyres, etc.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28049
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Nov 2018, 9:55am

To be fair to Nick Freeman, I think he's on the list of "go to" people when the media want a quote about driving offences etc. The moniker "Mr Loophole" gives him a certain notoriety and from his POV, any publicity is good publicity.

As has been pointed out, he's a lawyer and he works within it. He's entitled to say the law is poor.

FWIW, I think it's the fault of whichever parliamentary draughtsman thought up the expression "exceptional hardship." It's coach and horses territory in terms of exceptions, but saying that the punishment won't be imposed if it hurts is absurd. IMO.

thelawnet
Posts: 1882
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby thelawnet » 2 Nov 2018, 10:37am

Exceptional hardship is an invitation for lawyers tbh, and more specifically those who can afford them (or are smart enough to do the job themselves), as against those who can't.

If you remove discretion from the system then the system becomes more equal in that it does not favour those who can come up with a good excuse or pay someone to do so.

brynpoeth
Posts: 9040
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby brynpoeth » 2 Nov 2018, 10:56am

Rich people would try to find other ways
If I were rich I might employ a chauffeur

Parker, fetch the Rolls!
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love the three Es: enforcement, enforcement & enforcement

pete75
Posts: 10671
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby pete75 » 2 Nov 2018, 11:21am

thelawnet wrote:Exceptional hardship is an invitation for lawyers tbh, and more specifically those who can afford them (or are smart enough to do the job themselves), as against those who can't.

If you remove discretion from the system then the system becomes more equal in that it does not favour those who can come up with a good excuse or pay someone to do so.


The present system would be fine if they focused on the full phrase "exceptional hardship". That doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

brynpoeth
Posts: 9040
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby brynpoeth » 2 Nov 2018, 1:11pm

A frenchperson illegally drove to the test centre to take a driving test and was spotted by staff who told the cops
He has been banned from a taking a test for five years and will be prosecuted and may receive another punishment
+5!
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love the three Es: enforcement, enforcement & enforcement

pete75
Posts: 10671
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby pete75 » 2 Nov 2018, 4:33pm

brynpoeth wrote:A frenchperson illegally drove to the test centre to take a driving test and was spotted by staff who told the cops
He has been banned from a taking a test for five years and will be prosecuted and may receive another punishment
+5!


Source?

brynpoeth
Posts: 9040
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby brynpoeth » 2 Nov 2018, 4:35pm

pete75 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:A frenchperson illegally drove to the test centre to take a driving test and was spotted by staff who told the cops
He has been banned from a taking a test for five years and will be prosecuted and may receive another punishment
+5!


Source?

Newspaper, just threw it away, sorry

pete75
Posts: 10671
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby pete75 » 2 Nov 2018, 5:01pm

brynpoeth wrote:
pete75 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:A frenchperson illegally drove to the test centre to take a driving test and was spotted by staff who told the cops
He has been banned from a taking a test for five years and will be prosecuted and may receive another punishment
+5!


Source?

Newspaper, just threw it away, sorry


Which one?

User avatar
cyclemad
Posts: 140
Joined: 23 Jan 2018, 9:16pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby cyclemad » 2 Nov 2018, 9:48pm

Nick Freeman is not doing anything wrong He is just making use of the mess ups cops make when completing case files and the ineptitude of the Crown Prosecution Servce who don't know their backsides from their elbows..
Defence receives a case file up to 12 months prior to a court trial....Prosecution Barristers have been known to receive it on the night before or actually the morning of a trial !!!!!!!!!!

If either hasn't got the ability to submit / complete the correct forms and then check they are correct prior to a court hearing TUFF ... who's fault is that???????