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Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 12:56pm
by Bmblbzzz
thirdcrank wrote:I think the only way to resolve this might be to take the totting up away from the courts and make it an administrative procedure.

One problem is that magistrates don't just deal with driving cases and they see the problems associated with unemployment. They will often do all they can to protect someone's job, even if that person hasn't been very careful. They will be slow to disqualify somebody who drives as part of their job. IIRC, exceptional hardship was introduced to differentiate it from any old hardship. It hasn't worked.

This, very much.

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 1:08pm
by Cyril Haearn
Drivers who are caught several times have likely committed many more offences that were not detected
They should be banned without further ado

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 2:17pm
by Bonefishblues
I'm sure with my shiny clean licence I too have committed numerous offences, like when I allowed my speed to drift up to 35 in a 30 this morning before I slowed again, plus many more I wasn't aware of - arguably much more serious, as I was unaware. How should I be dealt with?

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 2:23pm
by Cyril Haearn
Bonefishblues wrote:I'm sure with my shiny clean licence I too have committed numerous offences, like when I allowed my speed to drift up to 35 in a 30 this morning before I slowed again, plus many more I wasn't aware of - arguably much more serious, as I was unaware. How should I be dealt with?

Obviously you are aware of the offences you are not aware of, you have described them! :?

Reminds me a bit of the text we recited at confession Saturday mornings... and various other sins I cannae now remember..

I sentence you to a whole week working from home, no personal contact with colleagues :(

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 2:33pm
by Bonefishblues
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I'm sure with my shiny clean licence I too have committed numerous offences, like when I allowed my speed to drift up to 35 in a 30 this morning before I slowed again, plus many more I wasn't aware of - arguably much more serious, as I was unaware. How should I be dealt with?

Obviously you are aware of the offences you are not aware of, you have described them! :?

Reminds me a bit of the text we recited at confession Saturday mornings... and various other sins I cannae now remember..

I sentence you to a whole week working from home, no personal contact with colleagues :(

I would refer you to the utterances of our esteemed colleague Mr Rumsfeld - we are all, or at least should be, aware of the existence of unknown unknowns...

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 6:24pm
by Cunobelin
I was once told a story by a colleague of a Nurse at the Trust they had worked for previously

She had reached her 12 points for speeding, and boasted how she had got away with it

She had told the Court that she was the lead in a Neurological team, and that the reason she had been speeding was because of emergencies. She then continued that if she lost her license, she would be absent from the operating theatre and then patients would suffer because the delay in their operations could exacerbate the effect of their injuries

In fact she was a very junior member of the team and this was all untrue.

Someone was annoyed at this reported her to the NMC for misrepresenting her qualifications and status. She was investigate, then with her registration suspended for 6 months, unable to work as a Nurse and as a result lost her job.

Justice served?

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 6:48pm
by [XAP]Bob
Cunobelin wrote:I was once told a story by a colleague of a Nurse at the Trust they had worked for previously

She had reached her 12 points for speeding, and boasted how she had got away with it

She had told the Court that she was the lead in a Neurological team, and that the reason she had been speeding was because of emergencies. She then continued that if she lost her license, she would be absent from the operating theatre and then patients would suffer because the delay in their operations could exacerbate the effect of their injuries

In fact she was a very junior member of the team and this was all untrue.

Someone was annoyed at this reported her to the NMC for misrepresenting her qualifications and status. She was investigate, then with her registration suspended for 6 months, unable to work as a Nurse and as a result lost her job.

Justice served?


But still not banned from driving?

No, justice not yet served

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 5 Nov 2018, 7:00pm
by Bonefishblues
[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I was once told a story by a colleague of a Nurse at the Trust they had worked for previously

She had reached her 12 points for speeding, and boasted how she had got away with it

She had told the Court that she was the lead in a Neurological team, and that the reason she had been speeding was because of emergencies. She then continued that if she lost her license, she would be absent from the operating theatre and then patients would suffer because the delay in their operations could exacerbate the effect of their injuries

In fact she was a very junior member of the team and this was all untrue.

Someone was annoyed at this reported her to the NMC for misrepresenting her qualifications and status. She was investigate, then with her registration suspended for 6 months, unable to work as a Nurse and as a result lost her job.

Justice served?


But still not banned from driving?

No, justice not yet served

I'm less fussed about the driving, as she clearly lost much more, but am wondering why a charge of Perjury or Perverting the Course of Justice wasn't brought? It's seldom that those who tell flagrant lies to a court are brought to justice, seemingly.

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 6 Nov 2018, 10:26am
by Pastychomper
Bonefishblues wrote:It's seldom that those who tell flagrant lies to a court are brought to justice, seemingly.


I get that impression too, but hope it's only because justice being done right gets reported/remembered less. I do remember a story a few years ago of a woman who lied to get out of jury duty, then boasted about it on Faecebook and got hauled back into court for a telling-off. I don't remember what the penalty was.

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 6 Nov 2018, 10:28am
by meic
I don't remember what the penalty was.

She should have been barred from jury duty for life for that. :wink:

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 7 Nov 2018, 12:56pm
by 9494arnold
Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 Section 35

The period of a totting up disqualification may be reduced or avoided for exceptional hardship or other mitigating circumstances if the court thinks fit to do so. No account is to be taken of hardship that is not exceptional hardship or circumstances alleged to make the offence not serious. Any circumstances taken into account in the preceding three years to reduce or avoid a totting disqualification must be disregarded .

..

So in effect, you can only play that card once (every 3 years) . I have to say I agree that Penalty Points in the 20's and above ought to have closer scrutiny than they appear to have currently. (Retired Police officer with Law degree)

And I agree , some of the "Exceptional Hardship" Arguments are pretty farcical.

Even worse is the fact that Road Policing is shrinking at an alarming rate so if you flount your ban the chances of getting caught are minimal unless you ping an ANPR Camera (and even then if it's Static one on the boundary of a town it's unlikely to result in an immediate stop and arrest)

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 7 Nov 2018, 1:56pm
by reohn2
Which not only makes the law an Ass but the maintaining of it an Ass also.
End result is an anarchic society where more people get away with it and so lawbreaking proliferates as monkey see monkey do....... .......which to a certain degree is what we have now only it has the potentialt o get much worse :evil:

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 7 Nov 2018, 3:10pm
by 9494arnold
I quite agree , reohn2 . :x

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 7 Nov 2018, 4:01pm
by reohn2
9494arnold wrote:I quite agree , reohn2 . :x

And what I find absolutely unforgiveable is that it's been a conscious political decision that's led the country down this disasterous route :evil: :evil: :evil:

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Posted: 7 Nov 2018, 9:25pm
by Bonefishblues
I don't have a problem with the ability to make the plea, but its application needs better scrutiny and clearer criteria, perhaps.