BC membership up

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The utility cyclist
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Re: BC membership up

Postby The utility cyclist » 8 Nov 2018, 9:47pm

reohn2 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
100%JR wrote:......?You seem to imply that those who choose to wear a helmet are somewhat lesser cyclists for it.I tend to find the exact opposite.....

Lesser cyclists, given what we know, yes, on average helmet wearing cyclists like yourself are worse in attitude, worse in safety and contribute to the negative fallout simply by the fact you, your son and others wear a helmet.......


That's something of a very sweeping statement with a capital sweep! :?

Read what I said again, on average, that means by definition the overall standard across all those wearing is worse than non wearers, there will be good and bad in both groups.
We already know how people behave worse when cycling with plastic hats on their heads compared to without and the outcomes this presents. Thousands upon thousands of single person hat saved my life stories, obviously a worse/less safe attitude to cycling.
How many times have we read about mass participation rides were hats are compulsory, even the pros have a worse attitude, ride less safe due to wearing plastic hats, how many more club riders being reported to be riding badly and that by other cyclists, the change in how those who wear 'them' is palpable AND measurable, this is not new stuff!:?

reohn2
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Re: BC membership up

Postby reohn2 » 8 Nov 2018, 10:42pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Lesser cyclists, given what we know, yes, on average helmet wearing cyclists like yourself are worse in attitude, worse in safety and contribute to the negative fallout simply by the fact you, your son and others wear a helmet.......


That's something of a very sweeping statement with a capital sweep! :?

Read what I said again, on average, that means by definition the overall standard across all those wearing is worse than non wearers, there will be good and bad in both groups.
We already know how people behave worse when cycling with plastic hats on their heads compared to without and the outcomes this presents.

Do we really know what you claim?
Do you have a link to some hard facts on such a statement?
Thousands upon thousands of single person hat saved my life stories, obviously a worse/less safe attitude to cycling
.
Thousands,are you sure about that?
Once again could I trouble you for some facts on that?

How many times have we read about mass participation rides were hats are compulsory

Quite a few I'll give you that,but if people wish to participate and don't mind wearing a helmet that's up to them,personally mass participation rides are the last thing on my to do list but not because of helmet rules.

even the pros have a worse attitude, ride less safe due to wearing plastic hats, how many more club riders being reported to be riding badly and that by other cyclists, the change in how those who wear 'them' is palpable AND measurable, this is not new stuff!:?

Again I'd need convincing of such claims do you have links to hard evidence?

BTW,I dont wear a helmet by choice,but don't choose to kick up a song and dance over people who do,or regard them as somehow lesser because they do.
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I cycle therefore I am.

pwa
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Re: BC membership up

Postby pwa » 9 Nov 2018, 9:03am

The most reckless bit of cycling I've seen this week was two lads at night on MTBs with no lights, darting around moving traffic at a busy junction. Neither had a helmet. But I didn't jump to the conclusion that the lack of a lid made them behave differently, or that lidless cyclists on average behave like that. I didn't even focus on the lid aspect of it at the time. I was too busy gritting my teeth in anticipation of a collision that thankfully didn't happen.

But the idea that the lack of a lid makes cyclists take more care is just rubbish. I have seen reference to flimsy "studies" that point to that and when you look closely there are too many variables to allow anyone to conclude anything at all. Cycling doesn't happen in the controlled environment of a test tube, it happens out there in the messy environment of the real world with all sorts of variables shifting at the same time, making studies subjective at best.

pwa
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Re: BC membership up

Postby pwa » 9 Nov 2018, 9:29am

Just out of curiosity I checked the BC site to see what it had to offer me, and it gave me details of rides run by the nearest club, with the easiest aimed at beginners and youngsters, 30 miles in 2.5 hours. Seems to be every Sunday, and starting only 4.5 miles from my home. Looked for the same sort of info on the CUK site and came up with zero rides locally.

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mjr
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Re: BC membership up

Postby mjr » 9 Nov 2018, 9:38am

pwa wrote:Just out of curiosity I checked the BC site to see what it had to offer me, and it gave me details of rides run by the nearest club, with the easiest aimed at beginners and youngsters, 30 miles in 2.5 hours. Seems to be every Sunday, and starting only 4.5 miles from my home. Looked for the same sort of info on the CUK site and came up with zero rides locally.

What do you mean by "the BC site"? Let's Ride or something else?

30 miles in 2.5 hours is 12mph and if that overall average (not only moving average) is for "beginners and youngsters" to BC, that's bordering on insulting. Heck, advertising at 10mph over flat terrain scares beginners! This is another example of why BC shouldn't be left to take over IMO.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Steady rider
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Re: BC membership up

Postby Steady rider » 9 Nov 2018, 9:45am

http://worldtransportjournal.com/wp-con ... eb-opt.pdf
Table 1 in Weaknesses with a meta-analysis approach to assessing cycle helmets. Feb 2017

Provides some details, there is also other data. Teenagers in general may not always behave as they should.

pwa
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Re: BC membership up

Postby pwa » 9 Nov 2018, 9:49am

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:Just out of curiosity I checked the BC site to see what it had to offer me, and it gave me details of rides run by the nearest club, with the easiest aimed at beginners and youngsters, 30 miles in 2.5 hours. Seems to be every Sunday, and starting only 4.5 miles from my home. Looked for the same sort of info on the CUK site and came up with zero rides locally.

What do you mean by "the BC site"? Let's Ride or something else?

30 miles in 2.5 hours is 12mph and if that overall average (not only moving average) is for "beginners and youngsters" to BC, that's bordering on insulting. Heck, advertising at 10mph over flat terrain scares beginners! This is another example of why BC shouldn't be left to take over IMO.

Let's Ride.
After finding that ride I checked out the club and they claim to emphasise social rides and, at least on the website, are talking about doing 25 mile rides aimed at slower riders who want an easy amble, with the slowest in the group dictating the pace. That sounds civilised to me. The club in question goes back a long way. I was a member for five minutes in the 1990s. Back then they were purely race oriented, but it now sounds different.

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meic
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Re: BC membership up

Postby meic » 9 Nov 2018, 9:51am

Easy enough to see what he means by BC rides, just Google BC and click a few links until you reach leisure.
So here is next year for within 30 miles of Carmarthen.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/event ... d%5B%5D=17
Two of which are instantly off limits because of my being born the wrong sex (before getting to plastic hats).
The middle one was looking good, no helmets and a distance where my little girl could ride her own bike instead of being a stoker, until I noticed no under 16s.

On the other hand Swansea CTC and Pembrokeshire FW have rides which I have, can and will be doing, with or without daughter and without a plastic hat.
Yma o Hyd

PH
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Re: BC membership up

Postby PH » 9 Nov 2018, 10:00am

meic wrote:Easy enough to see what he means by BC rides, just Google BC and click a few links until you reach leisure.

Or a slightly different google query would lead you here
https://www.letsride.co.uk/social
Which is also part of British Cycling and includes clubs offering rides...

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Re: BC membership up

Postby PH » 9 Nov 2018, 10:07am

pwa wrote:Let's Ride.
After finding that ride I checked out the club and they claim to emphasise social rides and, at least on the website, are talking about doing 25 mile rides aimed at slower riders who want an easy amble, with the slowest in the group dictating the pace. That sounds civilised to me. The club in question goes back a long way. I was a member for five minutes in the 1990s. Back then they were purely race oriented, but it now sounds different.

Lets ride is just a rides list, the clubs may or may not have any association with British Cycling, I post some of the open to all local CTC rides on there. It is a useful facility, but you'll see BC keep it at arms length and are clear about their lack of liability. Is that good for BC? well yes, right up to the point something goes wrong. If I were organising a group, offering something new in an area I'd go and discuss it with the local CTC member group who could offer more than the BC list.

pwa
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Re: BC membership up

Postby pwa » 9 Nov 2018, 10:09am

meic wrote:Easy enough to see what he means by BC rides, just Google BC and click a few links until you reach leisure.
So here is next year for within 30 miles of Carmarthen.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/event ... d%5B%5D=17
Two of which are instantly off limits because of my being born the wrong sex (before getting to plastic hats).
The middle one was looking good, no helmets and a distance where my little girl could ride her own bike instead of being a stoker, until I noticed no under 16s.

On the other hand Swansea CTC and Pembrokeshire FW have rides which I have, can and will be doing, with or without daughter and without a plastic hat.

The nearest BC club, which does rides starting locally, is also CTC (their wording) affiliated but these rides don't show up on the CUK site, only on BC's Let's Ride. I suppose our views about which offers the most in terms of rides is coloured by our individual locations. CUK around here is just an online thing with nothing on the ground.

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meic
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Re: BC membership up

Postby meic » 9 Nov 2018, 10:12am

PH wrote:
meic wrote:Easy enough to see what he means by BC rides, just Google BC and click a few links until you reach leisure.

Or a slightly different google query would lead you here
https://www.letsride.co.uk/social
Which is also part of British Cycling and includes clubs offering rides...


On this list, which is more awkward to use as it automatically filters the rides, makes it obvious that all three of the rides I found on the site previously are women only. The other site lets you work it out for yourself from it being a "Breeze" ride.
So nothing for either myself or my daughter.
Yma o Hyd

pwa
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Re: BC membership up

Postby pwa » 9 Nov 2018, 10:16am

PH wrote:
pwa wrote:Let's Ride.
After finding that ride I checked out the club and they claim to emphasise social rides and, at least on the website, are talking about doing 25 mile rides aimed at slower riders who want an easy amble, with the slowest in the group dictating the pace. That sounds civilised to me. The club in question goes back a long way. I was a member for five minutes in the 1990s. Back then they were purely race oriented, but it now sounds different.

Lets ride is just a rides list, the clubs may or may not have any association with British Cycling, I post some of the open to all local CTC rides on there. It is a useful facility, but you'll see BC keep it at arms length and are clear about their lack of liability. Is that good for BC? well yes, right up to the point something goes wrong. If I were organising a group, offering something new in an area I'd go and discuss it with the local CTC member group who could offer more than the BC list.

The local cycling club shows up on the BC site (and Let's Ride) but not as far as I can see on the CUK site, so if I want to know what is going on locally I would go to BC, or direct to the club.The club does claim CTC affiliation too, interestingly, but I wouldn't know that from the CUK site.

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meic
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Re: BC membership up

Postby meic » 9 Nov 2018, 10:17am

I cant manage a search of rides on the CTC site!
How do you do a search for rides within 30 miles of Carmarthen?
Yma o Hyd

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Si
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Re: BC membership up

Postby Si » 9 Nov 2018, 10:22am

Letsride.co.uk:
HSBC Guided Rides - these are BC rides
Breeze - these are BC rides
Lets Ride - these are BC rides/events (city ride / sky rides as was)
Lets Ride PopUps - BC events (cycling version of park run)
Ride Social - rides put on by members of public not BC, riders sign a disclaimer to protect leaders (and we can argue until the cows come home about the value of them), on the BC rides listed above the leaders are properly insured.

Unfortunately the system is very rigid but a review is currently underway to make it more "customer focused".