Kissing Gates

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2823
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby Bmblbzzz » 10 Nov 2018, 9:44pm

pwa wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
pwa wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1618858,-1.7518709,3a,75y,136.53h,88.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJo-nKWWRK2MFVQxSa3jhHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB

Not obviously designed for any cycle access at all. What is the status of that path/strack?
A separate access for horses and (with faff) bicycles.https://www.google.com/maps/@52.161838, ... 6?hl=en-GB


Without being obvious, i would just lift my bicycle over the fence, enter through the kissing gate and ride off on my bike .... are we over thinking this ... i don't see how it is a problem. We have a number of kissing gates near me .. i usually rotate my bicycle onto its rear wheel and wheel it .. and myself , through ... So i have to get off my bike, i am slowed down, ... so what !

If you look at the google images you will see alternative access for horses which you could get a bike over. I guess that is the cycle access, not the kissing gates.

I've used that path several times, always with a heavily laden tourer (at least two panniers, sometimes four, plus tent on top of rack, and usually handlebar bag too). I'm not sure which is the official cycle gate, I think it's the kissing gate with the other being for horses, but I seem to remember that in fact the "easiest" thing was to remove the panniers and it then didn't make much difference between gate or hurdles. With panniers on, it was possible but an effort for me to lift bike over hurdles, even though they're low, but impossible to get through the kissing gate.

johncarnie
Posts: 91
Joined: 2 Dec 2011, 3:53pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby johncarnie » 11 Nov 2018, 5:19pm

landsurfer wrote:
pwa wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1618858,-1.7518709,3a,75y,136.53h,88.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJo-nKWWRK2MFVQxSa3jhHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB

Not obviously designed for any cycle access at all. What is the status of that path/strack?
A separate access for horses and (with faff) bicycles.https://www.google.com/maps/@52.161838, ... 6?hl=en-GB


Without being obvious, i would just lift my bicycle over the fence, enter through the kissing gate and ride off on my bike .... are we over thinking this ... i don't see how it is a problem. We have a number of kissing gates near me .. i usually rotate my bicycle onto its rear wheel and wheel it .. and myself , through ... So i have to get off my bike, i am slowed down, ... so what !

As I said in my OP, this was seen as an issue for those with electric bikes and the new to cycling/us older folk - we are supposed to be encouraging new cyclists not putting up barriers!

tatanab
Posts: 3766
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby tatanab » 11 Nov 2018, 5:39pm

johncarnie wrote:As I said in my OP, this was seen as an issue for those with electric bikes and the new to cycling/us older folk - we are supposed to be encouraging new cyclists not putting up barriers!
From dim memory, it is about 8 years since I used that junction, the horse bypass is only on the side of the road with the cafe, not the one with the car park.

When non cyclists look blankly at me when I am describing the problem, I say to them "imagine you are driving an articulated lorry along a signposted LGV/HGV route and all of a sudden you come across a section only suitable for 7.5 ton vehicles. What would you think?"

pwa
Posts: 10255
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pwa » 11 Nov 2018, 5:42pm

In my own region there are places where rogue motorcycles are never a problem, and barriers on tracks can and often are minimal things to just indicate that drivers can't park there. The odd bollard perhaps. And there are other places where rogue motorcycles are a problem, and I can understand the desire to impede their use. This location doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would have that problem. Surely bollards spaced to just about stop a small car would do the job. Maybe also something to stop kids cycling directly out into the road.

pete75
Posts: 11714
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pete75 » 11 Nov 2018, 6:21pm

pwa wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/@54.0402493,-0.3166255,3a,30y,98.78h,84.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3heextkBSY7YX9p7mL_Edw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB
This messy spot on the Way of the Roses route had me struggling a bit with a Thorn Tandem loaded with four panniers and stuff on top of the rack. The gate is, I think, to the right. Okayish for a solo bike with not too much baggage. We had to take the panniers off to lift the tandem over. Thanks Sustrans for choosing this rather than the much too easy alternative route to the south!


And any half decent off road motorbike could be ridden straight over that. I take it the aim of these things is to stop bikes like this - can't imagine riders of sports machines would want to use a track like that so what's the point?

Image

pwa
Posts: 10255
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pwa » 11 Nov 2018, 6:26pm

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/@54.0402493,-0.3166255,3a,30y,98.78h,84.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3heextkBSY7YX9p7mL_Edw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB
This messy spot on the Way of the Roses route had me struggling a bit with a Thorn Tandem loaded with four panniers and stuff on top of the rack. The gate is, I think, to the right. Okayish for a solo bike with not too much baggage. We had to take the panniers off to lift the tandem over. Thanks Sustrans for choosing this rather than the much too easy alternative route to the south!


And any half decent off road motorbike could be ridden straight over that. I take it the aim of these things is to stop bikes like this - can't imagine riders of sports machines would want to use a track like that so what's the point?

Image

I imagine that step over thing is intended more as a message, telling less determined motorcycle transgressors that they are not welcome, rather than presenting them with an insurmountable obstacle. Which, as you say, it clearly is not.

pete75
Posts: 11714
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pete75 » 11 Nov 2018, 6:44pm

pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/@54.0402493,-0.3166255,3a,30y,98.78h,84.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3heextkBSY7YX9p7mL_Edw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB
This messy spot on the Way of the Roses route had me struggling a bit with a Thorn Tandem loaded with four panniers and stuff on top of the rack. The gate is, I think, to the right. Okayish for a solo bike with not too much baggage. We had to take the panniers off to lift the tandem over. Thanks Sustrans for choosing this rather than the much too easy alternative route to the south!


And any half decent off road motorbike could be ridden straight over that. I take it the aim of these things is to stop bikes like this - can't imagine riders of sports machines would want to use a track like that so what's the point?

Image

I imagine that step over thing is intended more as a message, telling less determined motorcycle transgressors that they are not welcome, rather than presenting them with an insurmountable obstacle. Which, as you say, it clearly is not.


Yep but some of these things may also stop less determined cyclists using these tracks. It's rather stupid that a long distance cycling route has obstacles that make things difficult for long distance cyclist who may well be carrying a full camping load on their bikes. Some parts of the TPT around Manchester have obstacles every few hundred yards. These paths are intended to be used by pedestrian and cyclists. How are people with wheel chairs or prams meant to use them. Recumbent trike riders who may be using the machine because of health problems and are incapable of lifting it over. All would have great difficulty with the blocks of wood in the link and would find kissing gates impossible.

pete75
Posts: 11714
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pete75 » 11 Nov 2018, 6:45pm

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
And any half decent off road motorbike could be ridden straight over that. I take it the aim of these things is to stop bikes like this - can't imagine riders of sports machines would want to use a track like that so what's the point?

Image

I imagine that step over thing is intended more as a message, telling less determined motorcycle transgressors that they are not welcome, rather than presenting them with an insurmountable obstacle. Which, as you say, it clearly is not.


Yep but some of these things may also stop less determined cyclists using these tracks. It's rather stupid that a long distance cycling route has obstacles that make things difficult for long distance cyclists who may well be carrying a full camping load on their bikes. Some parts of the TPT around Manchester have obstacles every few hundred yards. These paths are intended to be used by pedestrian and cyclists. How are people with wheel chairs or prams meant to use them? Recumbent trike riders who may be using the machine because of health problems and are incapable of lifting it over. All would have great difficulty with the blocks of wood in the link and would find kissing gates impossible.

User avatar
RickH
Posts: 4498
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby RickH » 11 Nov 2018, 8:38pm

What they've done in a couple of places that I know is to just open the service access gates that are often present.

In South Manchester there is the Fallowfield Loop path on an old railway line. A while back they opened the gates on a trial basis - cycling popularity increased & after 6 months they made it permanent. You now see all sorts of cycles, particularly ones that didn't fit - cargo bikes, bikes with trailers, etc.

I've seen similar in Cumbria, near Whitehaven, where the gates were all open, but still there.

I suppose it gives a fall back for if there is a temporary, localised problem with motorbikes, etc. but the rest of the time progress is unimpeded.

pwa
Posts: 10255
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pwa » 11 Nov 2018, 9:00pm

RickH wrote:What they've done in a couple of places that I know is to just open the service access gates that are often present.

In South Manchester there is the Fallowfield Loop path on an old railway line. A while back they opened the gates on a trial basis - cycling popularity increased & after 6 months they made it permanent. You now see all sorts of cycles, particularly ones that didn't fit - cargo bikes, bikes with trailers, etc.

I've seen similar in Cumbria, near Whitehaven, where the gates were all open, but still there.

I suppose it gives a fall back for if there is a temporary, localised problem with motorbikes, etc. but the rest of the time progress is unimpeded.

And it fits in with the idea that as cycling and walking increase on a track, it becomes less attractive to errant motorcyclists and any value in obstructions decreases to a point where they can be removed. The track in question looks to me like it may well have been at that point for quite a while.

landsurfer
Posts: 4955
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby landsurfer » 11 Nov 2018, 9:19pm

pwa wrote:Image


Thats nice !!! Can I have one !!! ... please .. 8)
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
The Road Goes On Forever ...

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 13755
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby mjr » 11 Nov 2018, 9:29pm

pwa wrote:In my own region there are places where rogue motorcycles are never a problem, and barriers on tracks can and often are minimal things to just indicate that drivers can't park there. The odd bollard perhaps. And there are other places where rogue motorcycles are a problem, and I can understand the desire to impede their use. This location doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would have that problem. Surely bollards spaced to just about stop a small car would do the job. Maybe also something to stop kids cycling directly out into the road.

I agree about bollards spaced so, but not about stopping kids cycling out into the road. Anything sufficiently challenging to stop an agile kid will be a significant obstacle to us older riders. The last thing we should want at junctions is to at best distract people from the road they should be looking at and at worst having them crashing out into the junction.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

pwa
Posts: 10255
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pwa » 11 Nov 2018, 9:35pm

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:In my own region there are places where rogue motorcycles are never a problem, and barriers on tracks can and often are minimal things to just indicate that drivers can't park there. The odd bollard perhaps. And there are other places where rogue motorcycles are a problem, and I can understand the desire to impede their use. This location doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would have that problem. Surely bollards spaced to just about stop a small car would do the job. Maybe also something to stop kids cycling directly out into the road.

I agree about bollards spaced so, but not about stopping kids cycling out into the road. Anything sufficiently challenging to stop an agile kid will be a significant obstacle to us older riders. The last thing we should want at junctions is to at best distract people from the road they should be looking at and at worst having them crashing out into the junction.

I'm thinking what I would want if I were a parent cycling with kids. A bit of something to take the edge off their speed as they meet a road might be helpful. A wiggle in the line of the track might do it if it were done with a bit of thought. Straightening up in time to give a good view of the road.

pete75
Posts: 11714
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby pete75 » 11 Nov 2018, 10:05pm

landsurfer wrote:
pwa wrote:Image


Thats nice !!! Can I have one !!! ... please .. 8)


I've got one but you're not having it - it's mine - all mine........ :wink:

landsurfer
Posts: 4955
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Kissing Gates

Postby landsurfer » 11 Nov 2018, 10:13pm

pete75 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
pwa wrote:Image


Thats nice !!! Can I have one !!! ... please .. 8)


I've got one but you're not having it - it's mine - all mine........ :wink:


:lol: :lol:

This is the latest project;

s-l1600-1.jpg


GPX 600, paid £100 for it ... another oily rag restoration ...... :D
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
The Road Goes On Forever ...