Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

whoof
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Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby whoof » 12 Nov 2018, 11:59am


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mjr
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby mjr » 12 Nov 2018, 12:05pm

"Earlier in the year, the government announced £1m to repair and upgrade sections of the routes" - this compares very poorly to the £30bn for motoring announced just this month, but the BBC won't put the figure in context.
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby mjr » 12 Nov 2018, 1:11pm

Video announcement https://youtu.be/L7ngWCwfzDI
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby Wanlock Dod » 12 Nov 2018, 1:47pm

I suppose that in a country where virtually nobody cycles, and those involved in providing what little is actually provided making as big a deal as they do about it, it is easy to convince most people that you are doing a great job because those that know the reality of the situation are so few in number. I've always found a ride on the NCN to be a journey in expectation management and I'm surprised they have taken this long to realise.

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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby gaz » 12 Nov 2018, 1:50pm

Map to stick pins into: http://bit.ly/2J936hv

I believe the idea is to highlight problems, not so much to make Sustrans aware (their review was thorough) as to provide evidence of support for remedial work. It may of course just be a form of on-line voodoo.

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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby whoof » 12 Nov 2018, 3:08pm

mjr wrote:"Earlier in the year, the government announced £1m to repair and upgrade sections of the routes" - this compares very poorly to the £30bn for motoring announced just this month, but the BBC won't put the figure in context.


One of the problems is the solutions are there but it appears that to achieve something one government agency has to pay to help sort out another's problems. For instance a recent report said that 10% of the entire NHS budget was being spent on treating type 2 diabetes and the majority of cases could be avoided by people being more active. This could be partially achieved by people cycling and walking more but that would require councils and the department of transport spending to relieve pressure on the NHS.
Similarly locally all six drug rehabilitation centres have been closed due to council cuts. A consultant physiatrist stated that every £1 spent on drug rehab saved £2.50 in not sending people through the criminal justice system. Unfortunately the council pay for the rehab but funding for prisons and courts comes from central Government.

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby Wanlock Dod » 12 Nov 2018, 3:49pm

I can't imagine that the people who sell diabetes drugs would be very happy about somebody taking their market away though...

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The utility cyclist
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby The utility cyclist » 12 Nov 2018, 6:43pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:I can't imagine that the people who sell diabetes drugs would be very happy about somebody taking their market away though...

Can't imagine politicians being too happy with their companies market being taken away either - that they hold shares in/have directorships on :twisted:

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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby atlas_shrugged » 12 Nov 2018, 7:23pm

Quite amazing how unable MPs are to join the dots.

Behind the stand where they are speaking is a poster saying paths for everyone and pictures a multitracked cycle that looks as though it takes at least two persons sat side by side. I do not know the width of this particular cycle. But given it is difficult to get an ordinary bike past some of the SusTrans anti-cycling barriers these two ladies would not have a hope in accessing many sustrans routes - especially the ones involving stairs.

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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby meic » 12 Nov 2018, 7:35pm

The call for the removal of thousands of barriers is very welcome.
Sustrans were to a very large extent caught in the middle about these barriers. Opposing their imposition from external influences and then defending the barriers to their volunteers and users.
Hopefully on the paths that are now well established more of these barriers will be reviewed and removed. Hopefully far fewer new paths will have them to begin with.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby The utility cyclist » 12 Nov 2018, 9:58pm

NCN12 and part of North Herts DC 'cycling corridor' :roll: there are several of these and new ones further up the 'corridor' such that my friend who cycles his young daughter in a pull along carriage can no longer use the route :twisted:

I've thought about getting an angle grinder and doing away with them!
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby basingstoke123 » 12 Nov 2018, 11:37pm

mjr wrote:"Earlier in the year, the government announced £1m to repair and upgrade sections of the routes" - this compares very poorly to the £30bn for motoring announced just this month, but the BBC won't put the figure in context.

How many people would notice the difference after £1M of improvements were carried out on a local road junction or roundabout, if they happened to be fortunate enough to miss the roadworks?

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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby basingstoke123 » 13 Nov 2018, 8:36am

What would be more interesting would be how many routes, not miles, are suitable for children. (I'm willing to concede a route as a section between destinations, e.g. neighbouring towns, not an entire NCN.)

Even if the route from Mytown to Nexttown has 9 miles of high quality cycle route (dream on, this isn't Holland), it only takes a couple 1/2 miles sections to break the route. With skiing, a piste is categorised (green, blue, red, black) by its most difficult section. A nice easy long piste with just a small section of step difficult moguls (that cannot be bypassed) will be called a back run. Even though most of it is boring blue.

What about:
What percentage of routes are passable (easily) by someone touring with full panniers? No narrow barriers. Or on a road bike? No 'mountain bike only' sections.

Or, lets be more controversial:
How many NCN routes have points or sections where cycling is not legal?

NCN23, where it goes under M3 Jn 9 into Winchester

I found this thread viewtopic.php?t=120794 which also lists cycling bans on:
NCN12 in Peterborough
NCN51 in Kidlington and Bicester

Even the route signing can be rather limited in places, requiring that you already know the route, or have some other means of navigation. Following a signposted route should not be a game of hide and seek - "bet you won't find the next sign".

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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby pwa » 14 Nov 2018, 8:22am

I suppose Sustrans' list of desirable improvements is good, something to aim for, but some of it must be ideals that are never going to be fully realised. The NCN was created after most of our other infrastructure was already well established, so there will probably always be cycling infrastructure that is close to busy roads simply because that is the only space available. Especially in densely urbanised areas. But Sustrans are right to want to revisit things they have done in the past that are not up to scratch.

Thinking as a parent, some of the best cycle routes are in quiet locations, and that in itself poses personal security issues for kids on their own. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5800431 ... 6?hl=en-GB
This bit of track is always nice to cycle, and not particularly risky from a crime standpoint, but if I had a seven year old child I would not be relaxed about them cycling it alone. If anything went wrong it would be too far from help. It is unsafe for children on their own. Not all good routes will be safe for children without supervision.

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TrevA
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby TrevA » 14 Nov 2018, 4:19pm

I live about 20 yards from an NCN (route 15), but it crosses and recrosses a main road, simply because the path is not wide enough to support it on one side of the road, one of these crossings is light controlled, but the other one isn't. You just have to take your chance with the traffic. I'm not surprised that the network is not safe for children, it's hardly safe for adults.
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