Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

MikeF
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby MikeF » 17 Nov 2018, 8:00pm

A UK-wide network of traffic-free paths for everyone
Aren't cycles and pedestrians traffic? A very bad choice of words by Sustrans especially if cycling is to be recognised as a means of transport. We need roads and routes where cycles are the priority traffic. :wink: A network is only useful if it enables me to go where I want to travel.
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MikeF
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby MikeF » 17 Nov 2018, 9:25pm

The utility cyclist wrote:NCN12 and part of North Herts DC 'cycling corridor' :roll: there are several of these and new ones further up the 'corridor' such that my friend who cycles his young daughter in a pull along carriage can no longer use the route :twisted:

I've thought about getting an angle grinder and doing away with them!
Image
That's where drop handlebars are useful. There's one near me (without any bypass) that I don't use very much, but I can get through it. It's where a BOAT becomes a public footpath but all I want to do is go to/from a road about 15 feet away.
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gaz
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby gaz » 17 Nov 2018, 9:54pm

The utility cyclist wrote:I've thought about getting an angle grinder and doing away with them!

Image

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The utility cyclist
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby The utility cyclist » 18 Nov 2018, 8:56am

MikeF wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:NCN12 and part of North Herts DC 'cycling corridor' :roll: there are several of these and new ones further up the 'corridor' such that my friend who cycles his young daughter in a pull along carriage can no longer use the route :twisted:

I've thought about getting an angle grinder and doing away with them!
Image
That's where drop handlebars are useful. There's one near me (without any bypass) that I don't use very much, but I can get through it. It's where a BOAT becomes a public footpath but all I want to do is go to/from a road about 15 feet away.

Drops or not, I can barely get my shoulders through the upper narrowed bit. This is part of a leisure 'greenway' and designated 'cycling corridor' by LA so most with flat bars have to stop as it's 57cm wide at bar height. It's supposed to be a wheelchair friendly route as well! :lol:

MikeF
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Re: UK cycle newwork unsafe for children

Postby MikeF » 18 Nov 2018, 9:16am

The utility cyclist wrote:
MikeF wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:NCN12 and part of North Herts DC 'cycling corridor' :roll: there are several of these and new ones further up the 'corridor' such that my friend who cycles his young daughter in a pull along carriage can no longer use the route :twisted:

I've thought about getting an angle grinder and doing away with them!
Image
That's where drop handlebars are useful. There's one near me (without any bypass) that I don't use very much, but I can get through it. It's where a BOAT becomes a public footpath but all I want to do is go to/from a road about 15 feet away.

Drops or not, I can barely get my shoulders through the upper narrowed bit. This is part of a leisure 'greenway' and designated 'cycling corridor' by LA so most with flat bars have to stop as it's 57cm wide at bar height. It's supposed to be a wheelchair friendly route as well! :lol:
Is this a well used path? Well used paths don't seem to have a M/c problem, but it does depend on the locality to a certain extent. But if obstacles are put in place it's likely to be less well used. :wink:
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby The utility cyclist » 18 Nov 2018, 10:03am

none of our 'infra' is well used, cycling is negligible in N.Herts though racks at station are usually full but locally I could literally tell you make and model of bike and where they live in Letchworth of the utility cyclists. :cry:

MikeF
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby MikeF » 18 Nov 2018, 3:19pm

Perhaps that's why "they" think there there might be a M/C problem. Sounds as though the routes don't lead anywhere useful although that picture shows a considerable effort has been made in providing something even it's not ideal.
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby Flinders » 19 Nov 2018, 1:05pm

Not much round here. Some bits that are off-road are on towpaths. And you should see the state of those hereabouts.

In general, I find them pointless. For example, if you can't find out whether the surface is suitable for your type of bike, they are about as much use as a chocolate teapot, unless you have a mountain bike. And when they are on roads, so what? I can use the roads anyway. And special junctions put in are, in my experience, more dangerous than if they had been left as they were before.

When I have used them in places I didn't know my way around to begin with, the signage has been dire, and I've ended up on worse roads/junctions than if I'd just used an OS map.

They are a great idea, but in practice, I have got into more difficulties using them than if I'd just ignored their existence.

Just looked at where I'm planning to move to. Roads or towpaths, for the most part. So nothing new there.

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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby mjr » 19 Nov 2018, 2:01pm

Flinders wrote:And when they are on roads, so what? I can use the roads anyway. And special junctions put in are, in my experience, more dangerous than if they had been left as they were before.

Signs are the first benefit - a sat nav backup is helpful but often the signs sort out ambiguity about exactly where the "turn left" is. The signs are not perfect, but they're pretty good now, thanks to the volunteers. I wish I could get similar signs made at a sensible price for the local non-Sustrans routes.

In my experience, special junctions built to enable the NCN have made things much more easily. For example, I'm pretty sure that the southern entry into Boston was longer (or rather it involved a short sprint up a dual carriageway, a U-turn at a roundabout and a sprint back) and the Fosdyke crossing involved two right turns across a busy A road (or illegally cycling on the deserted even-narrower-until-NCN-1 footway)

It needs huge improvement but it's improved over time.
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 19 Nov 2018, 2:47pm

mjr wrote:I wish I could get similar signs made at a sensible price for the local non-Sustrans routes.


Nibra Signs are worth talking to - I used them for the signs we put up in the churchyard saying cyclists were welcome to use the path. http://nibrasigns.co.uk/cycleway-direct ... gnage.html
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby Wanlock Dod » 21 Nov 2018, 1:53pm

This recent article in Cyclist magazine seems to paint a rather rosy picture about Scotland in terms of funding but seems to be oblivious to the fact that so far, despite over 7 years of funding no actual progress towards the governments original goal of increasing levels of cycling has actually been achieved. Although some of the paths are less bad the focus does seem to be on having a "route" which is so poor and inconvenient that hardly anybody uses it rather than doing anything which might actually promote cycling.

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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby MikeF » 21 Nov 2018, 4:12pm

Flinders wrote: I can use the roads anyway. And special junctions put in are, in my experience, more dangerous than if they had been left as they were before.

It's not a Sustrans route, but here is a route for cyclists at a roundabout. Cyclists need to cross 4 carriageways to turn right following the route provided, but the A25 does have a lot of fast motor vehicles, so it's not easy staying on the carriageway. Travelling straight ahead or turning left cyclists shouldn't have a problem remaining on the road.

The cycle lanes could be much wider as there isn't a need for that wide cross hatching in the middle of the road.
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby MikeF » 21 Nov 2018, 4:18pm

Flinders wrote:When I have used them in places I didn't know my way around to begin with, the signage has been dire, and I've ended up on worse roads/junctions than if I'd just used an OS map.

Cycling direction signs need to be much bigger. They are all too easy to miss. In many places they could be included on the 'normal' road signs. That would also make drivers aware that cyclists use the roads as well!!
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 21 Nov 2018, 4:21pm

MikeF wrote:The cycle lanes could be much wider as there isn't a need for that wide cross hatching in the middle of the road.


Research carried out by TfL suggests that cross-hatching actually makes drivers go faster, as it increases the feeling of separation and therefore safety. There's a lot of places where central cross-hatching could be usefully replaced by road-edge cycle lanes or, better still, light segregation.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/centre-line-removal-trial.pdf
Last edited by Richard Fairhurst on 21 Nov 2018, 5:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MikeF
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Re: Sustrans Report "UK Cycle Network is unsafe for children"

Postby MikeF » 21 Nov 2018, 4:33pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
MikeF wrote:The cycle lanes could be much wider as there isn't a need for that wide cross hatching in the middle of the road.


Research carried out by TfL suggests that cross-hatching actually makes drivers go faster, as it increases the feeling of separation and therefore safety. There's a lot of places where central cross-hatching could be usefully replaced by road-edge cycle lanes or, better still, light segregation.
That's interesting.
I certainly think that the central crosshatching should be reduced in width or removed on the A25 in many places. The cycle lane is too narrow for the cycle symbol in places and on one section I cycle outside the lane as it's not practical/safe to use it.
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