Shared use paths & Strava racing

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby Wanlock Dod » 18 Nov 2018, 8:06am

Clearly some of them are choosing not to use the perfectly good and well maintained road network, in favour of a substandard traffic-free path. Perhaps we should ask ourselves what it is about the perfectly good and well maintained road network that causes them to favour this route.

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Paulatic
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby Paulatic » 18 Nov 2018, 8:08am

thelawnet wrote:.


Oh they do, they are a cat 2 racer.
http://www.instagram.com/ipucci1994

I think these segments were when they were training for MTb racing. Now apparently doing more road racing.[/quote]

ROFL every picture tells a story don’t it.
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pwa
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby pwa » 18 Nov 2018, 8:12am

I have ridden shared use tracks at up to about 30mph where I could see the way ahead to be clear and safe, but I knew I was going to slow right down if I met anyone. I wouldn't go into a blind corner at that speed. Surely if you are racing against the clock or on Strava you are being driven by something that can conflict with the need to treat other people with respect. Those paths are meant to be safe places for families with small children, where they are free from worries about traffic. That should be your foremost thought when you meet people, not how you can get past as quick as possible.

thelawnet
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby thelawnet » 18 Nov 2018, 8:25am

Wanlock Dod wrote:Clearly some of them are choosing not to use the perfectly good and well maintained road network, in favour of a substandard traffic-free path. Perhaps we should ask ourselves what it is about the perfectly good and well maintained road network that causes them to favour this route.


They were training for XC mtb races. If you look at the full route it's all or nearly all off road.

The third place on the leaderboard has the name of a mountain bike club in their profile as well.

There's a parallel road which is quite suitable for cycling at speed.

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100%JR
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby 100%JR » 18 Nov 2018, 9:30am

mjr wrote:
I'm sure Strava has as many analysis uses as many similar trackers but that's beside the point. Why be such a fan as to deny the drawbacks?

Without Strava, I'm sure another competition would take its place quickly, which is why regulators should step in.


There are no drawbacks.
Your logic is strange.What exactly would “regulators” do?Nothing they can do.
They could shut Strava down and people would still do what they do.
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100%JR
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby 100%JR » 18 Nov 2018, 9:36am

100%JR wrote:
mjr wrote:
I'm sure Strava has as many analysis uses as many similar trackers but that's beside the point. Why be such a fan as to deny the drawbacks?

Without Strava, I'm sure another competition would take its place quickly, which is why regulators should step in.


There are no drawbacks AFAIC.
Your logic is strange.What exactly would “regulators” do?Nothing they can do.
They could shut Strava down and people would still do what they do.
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby thelawnet » 18 Nov 2018, 10:10am

100%JR wrote:
mjr wrote:
I'm sure Strava has as many analysis uses as many similar trackers but that's beside the point. Why be such a fan as to deny the drawbacks?

Without Strava, I'm sure another competition would take its place quickly, which is why regulators should step in.


There are no drawbacks.
Your logic is strange.What exactly would “regulators” do?Nothing they can do.
They could shut Strava down and people would still do what they do.


?

The idea that people's behaviour is not affected by multibillion dollar apps specifically designed to alter their behaviour is bizarre.

If you have an app that gives you badges for beating your best times and others best times,then that will encourage you to go faster.

If you won't accept this and assume everyone using Strava would otherwise also be be racing then there's not much hope for you.

These tools aren't necessarily bad, but as with any other business they do have some responsibility.

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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby Vorpal » 18 Nov 2018, 11:06am

I think that it is reasonable to ask Strava not to have segments on any shared use facility. There are simply not any shared use facilities that are suitable for competition.

Or maybe they can do something like not record speeds over 15 mph on shared use facilities.

I'm not sure the best solution, and I'm not blaming Strava, but permitting competition where isn't appropriate certainly contributes to the problem.
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby thelawnet » 18 Nov 2018, 11:37am

Vorpal wrote:I think that it is reasonable to ask Strava not to have segments on any shared use facility. There are simply not any shared use facilities that are suitable for competition.

Or maybe they can do something like not record speeds over 15 mph on shared use facilities.

I'm not sure the best solution, and I'm not blaming Strava, but permitting competition where isn't appropriate certainly contributes to the problem.


Yes it seems like something they could do. The underlying data they use is is OpenStreetMap, where the path is coded:

'Cycle path', 'bicycle yes', 'foot yes' 'width 2m'. I daresay something could be done with those fields to prohibit the creation of segments.

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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 18 Nov 2018, 12:01pm

Vorpal wrote:I think that it is reasonable to ask Strava not to have segments on any shared use facility. There are simply not any shared use facilities that are suitable for competition.

Or maybe they can do something like not record speeds over 15 mph on shared use facilities.

I'm not sure the best solution, and I'm not blaming Strava, but permitting competition where isn't appropriate certainly contributes to the problem.


Agreed absolutely. I know that both the Canal & River Trust and Sustrans have had issues with Strava racing on their shared-use paths, and Strava's response has basically been a bit of chin-stroking and saying "well, you can always flag the segment". No, dudes, it's your (profit-making) platform, you have the social (if not legal) responsibility to fix it. Expecting underfunded charities to employ people to police your platform, and any others that might come along, is a really irresponsible attitude.

I wonder if it would be worth registering strava**holes.com (using the popular term for such behaviour), and using the Strava API and OpenStreetMap data to identify and call out people who speed on such paths. My fear is that some people would see it as a badge of pride.
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100%JR
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby 100%JR » 18 Nov 2018, 12:19pm

Bizarre.
There’s more than one App that gives rewards but the focus seems to be on Strava.It appears Strava is internet moaners target of the month :roll:
I suppose by the strange logic on this thread “regulators” should also “regulate” Fortnite for starting a “flossing” craze or Pokemon Go for kids(and adults) running about collecting imaginary monsters?Why not just “regulate” everything :roll:
As said it’s not just Strava and they(and others) have absolutely no power over what users do.
The vast majority of users don’t chase segments or KOMs so why should Strava change everything due to a few bad users.
They shouldn’t.
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby Spinners » 18 Nov 2018, 12:30pm

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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby MikeF » 18 Nov 2018, 3:07pm

100%JR wrote:As said it’s not just Strava and they(and others) have absolutely no power over what users do.
Except they do. If users can't record on a certain route then Strava cannot be used. It won't stop cyclists racing where they shouldn't but it will be only self competition. There won't be league tables encouraging more participants.
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 18 Nov 2018, 4:15pm

100%JR wrote:The vast majority of users don’t chase segments or KOMs so why should Strava change everything due to a few bad users.


Nice strawman, but no-one is asking Strava to "change everything". Just one simple change. Please tell me with which of these statements you disagree:

a) Strava have the ability to identify paths which cyclists share with pedestrians (/dog-walkers/children).
b) On these paths, it is irresponsible to ride at a speed which would endanger slower users.
c) Therefore Strava should remove the ability to achieve (speed-based) KOMs on these paths.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Shared use paths & Strava racing

Postby Cugel » 18 Nov 2018, 4:27pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I think that it is reasonable to ask Strava not to have segments on any shared use facility. There are simply not any shared use facilities that are suitable for competition.

Or maybe they can do something like not record speeds over 15 mph on shared use facilities.

I'm not sure the best solution, and I'm not blaming Strava, but permitting competition where isn't appropriate certainly contributes to the problem.


Agreed absolutely. I know that both the Canal & River Trust and Sustrans have had issues with Strava racing on their shared-use paths, and Strava's response has basically been a bit of chin-stroking and saying "well, you can always flag the segment". No, dudes, it's your (profit-making) platform, you have the social (if not legal) responsibility to fix it. Expecting underfunded charities to employ people to police your platform, and any others that might come along, is a really irresponsible attitude.

I wonder if it would be worth registering strava**holes.com (using the popular term for such behaviour), and using the Strava API and OpenStreetMap data to identify and call out people who speed on such paths. My fear is that some people would see it as a badge of pride.


It's commonplace for businesses to avoid any of the costs or responsibilities that they can lay off to others. After all, it would affect their bottom line, which is a Terrible Sin Against The Shareholders (and bonus-takers).

You can think of the shared-use path problems, "accidents" and other nuisances caused by Strava as their equivalent of those avoided-costs that many businesses generate - rubbish, such as plastic wrappings; car-pollution, currently smogging the land and the lungs; many other nasty things that businesses expect "someone else" to deal with, inclusive of the associated costs of doing so.

Strava-strivers on shared-use paths are, then, Strava's virtual rubbish, stinking up society as they ooze their toxic effects on our daily lives. They're part of the process we often discuss known as "the demonization of cyclists". A few Strava-striving cyclists hooliganing down shared-use paths are supplying model cyclist-demons, as a class to which the rest of us can be assigned by The Hate mail et al.

Cugel