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help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 1:30pm
by neilwragg
Our council has proposed a change to the road layout on and around a busy two lane roundabout to ease access for motorists entering and leaving a local business park. I'd like any opinions on whether it looks ok for cyclists.
My initial concern is that the traffic lights that may be installed on the roundabout will leave cyclists sandwiched between two lanes of waiting traffic if you are trying to travel straight ahead. The left lane on the roundabout is for traffic turning left into the business park so if you are heading into town, which is most traffic including most cyclists you have to be in the right hand lane on the roundabout, this is scary enough as you are cycling in the outside lane of a very fast roundabout but if you then have to stop and wait at lights it could be a sprint to get away from the lights?

The website is here http://globebusinesspark.co.uk/news/westhorpe-interchange-consultation-7th-january-to-1st-february-2019

and the diagram about the new road layout is here http://globebusinesspark.co.uk/assets/uploads/Westhorpe-Consultation-Information.pdf

and comments can be added here (please feel free to let our council know if this is going to be unsafe!) https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScs6GRTKFUlZ6XVDXxdx0KTqpUumUerfGLM8CQ02GmDecNUSA/viewform

Re: help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 1:59pm
by Tigerbiten
neilwragg wrote:My initial concern is that the traffic lights that may be installed on the roundabout will leave cyclists sandwiched between two lanes of waiting traffic if you are trying to travel straight ahead. The left lane on the roundabout is for traffic turning left into the business park so if you are heading into town, which is most traffic including most cyclists you have to be in the right hand lane on the roundabout, this is scary enough as you are cycling in the outside lane of a very fast roundabout but if you then have to stop and wait at lights it could be a sprint to get away from the lights?

Why would you be sandwiched between lanes ??

If I was approaching that roundabout I pick a lane and sit in the middle of it until I exit the roundabout. Only then would I move from the center of the lane. It would all depend on the exact road layout and/or traffic volumes/speeds as to which lane I'd pick. Putting lights on that roundabout wouldn't alter how approach it.
The only reason I'd could think of as to stuck between lane is if there is a feeder lane upto an ASL box there and I don't see any provision for anything like that in the plans.

Re: help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 3:01pm
by Bmblbzzz
Traffic lights on large roundabouts like that generally make them less of an obstacle for cyclists by regulating traffic flow. It's possible the fire station slip road could be a problem for cyclists on Parkway by introducing fast traffic at a potentially dodgy junction (acute joining angle) there.

Re: help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 3:27pm
by Steady rider
Just looked at the location, seems similar to Grimston Bar near York.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Gri ... 9626?hl=en

a cycle path on the outside, most junctions have traffic lights, may be worth looking at to see if worth copying in some ways.

Re: help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 4:13pm
by mjr
I can't see any cycling infrastructure proposed for the roundabout/lights junction at all. It looks like the usual crap that ignores DMRB IAN 195/16 (aka https://cycletraffic-elearning.com/ ), this week's repeated advice from NICE that road upgrades are meant to prioritise walking and cycling, or arguably the transport and planning policies of most councils and so on, despite there seeming to be plenty of land around the roundabout which could be used to support cycling - no, they'd rather use it for yet more tarmac for cars. :-(

In short, I thought they weren't meant to build that sort of rubbish on A roads any more. Am I missing something?

Re: help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 8:24pm
by amaferanga
Looks like a downgrade for pedestrians - making them wait at a signalised crossing instead of being able to cross without waiting. Its standard prioritising motor traffic over active travel and exactly what they shouldn't be doing.

Re: help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 8:57pm
by Bmblbzzz
amaferanga wrote:Looks like a downgrade for pedestrians - making them wait at a signalised crossing instead of being able to cross without waiting. Its standard prioritising motor traffic over active travel and exactly what they shouldn't be doing.

Yes. But also, ye-es. Depending on the local conditions, the lights might be enabling pedestrian crossing where it's at present extremely difficult. At least for the entry lanes; is there going to be any provision for pedestrians to cross the exit lanes?

Re: help needed with new road layout proposal from council, is this ok?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 11:46pm
by Pete Owens
The entire aim of the scheme is to increase motor traffic volumes to the expense of all other considerations - which of itself will be bad for cyclists.

To take each of the proposals individually:

Measure 1: Traffic lights on roundabouts such as this tend to make things easier for cyclists. Argue for them to be full time rather than part time to gain the benefit even at times that they are not useful in terms of motor traffic flow. I think part time signals are actually discouraged in the regulations. They also are helpful for pedestrians crossing the slip road so should be provided with pedestrian signal heads. There really need to be signalled crossings on the exit slip roads as well - but this would be at the cost of motor capacity so they would be fiercely resisted.

Measure 2: Slip roads are bad news for cyclists due to the high speed filtering so oppose that.

Measure 4: Converting a zebra to a signal crossing is bad news for pedestrians as it is less safe and they lose priority.

Measure 5: (they ask what they have missed) The island on the small roundabout to the west of the big one is much too small. A Much bigger island would slow down traffic by creating a deflection - this should actually help traffic joining by making it easier to identify a gap in the traffic - thus be a better alternative to Measure 3.

Measure 6: Reduce the speed limit on the roundabout and the road to the east. It is not a suitable standard for the national speed limit. It is only about half a mile till you reach a 40mph limit.