Elderly drivers: when is it time to hand over the car keys?

[Oldjohnw]

In the early years of the Speed awareness Course, when it lasted a whole day and included a mini driving test, I had the good/mis fortune to get caught driving at a moderate level of excess speed.

Two participants had their licence suspended and they were sent home by public transport.

The reason? They failed the eye test. They were in their 40s and one of them was n HGV driver.

[Cyril Haearn]

In the early years of the Speed awareness Course, when it lasted a whole day and included a mini driving test, I had the good/mis fortune to get caught driving at a moderate level of excess speed.

Two participants had their licence suspended and they were sent home by public transport.

The reason? They failed the eye test. They were in their 40s and one of them was n HGV driver.

Prompted by your pseudonym, may one ask how old you are?
You are not obliged to answer

[Barks]

Oldjonw wrote:

sometimes think it is regrettable that elderly drivers are encouraged to get automatics. I have a feeling that they are the cause of many accidents, epecially where the driver has not been a long time auto driver but has only recently been persuaded

And why might that be? You can drive an auto on a manual licence but not the other way round, that implies that automatics are easier to drive as indeed is my experience.

[Oldjohnw]

Prompted by your pseudonym, may one ask how old you are?
You are not obliged to answer

I am 70 this year.

[Oldjohnw]

And why might that be? You can drive an auto on a manual licence but not the other way round, that implies that automatics are easier to drive as indeed is my experience.

I would have thought that, too. But several on the R4 prog today had pressed the accelerator instead of the brake and I know a number of similar situations. Not very scientific, I'm afraid. Just anecdotes.

[thirdcrank]

A former girlfriend got a provisional licence on her 17th birthday (1963) and within a few days pressed the accelerator instead of the brake and ended up in a shop window. That was in the days when it was normal for even new learner drivers to go out in an ordinary car without dual controls.

[Airsporter1st]

And why might that be? You can drive an auto on a manual licence but not the other way round, that implies that automatics are easier to drive as indeed is my experience.

I would have thought that, too. But several on the R4 prog today had pressed the accelerator instead of the brake and I know a number of similar situations. Not very scientific, I'm afraid. Just anecdotes.

That can happen equally on a manual - if not more so because the brake pedal on an auto is generally larger than on the equivalent manual. What is more likely on an auto is accidentally braking with the left foot trying to depress a non-existent clutch. That though can happen to anyone, regardless of age, out of simple habit if they are a recent convert.

[Grandad]

What is more likely on an auto is accidentally braking with the left foot trying to depress a non-existent clutch. That though can happen to anyone, regardless of age, out of simple habit if they are a recent convert.

Interesting. I acquired my first automatic 6 weeks ago and anticipated having to learn to keep the left foot well out of the way, getting advice such as "tuck the left leg behind the right" Fortunately there is a very large angled platform to support the unnecessary foot and I can push down on this as much as I like.

The only initial problem was getting a smooth initial take up of the drive, especially reverse, but now OK.

[atoz]

When people live in areas that have no, or minimal public transport they are making a choice. Many of these areas are quite expensive to live in. You have to drive everywhere. There are very little local shops, and those that exist are overpriced. So people drive to out of town shopping. A relative of mine lives in such an area. He can afford to do this as he is a builder, and therefore can buy a shell and turn it into a habitable home. Many people in his village are rather better off. Some of them have long distance commutes to London. As with many villages, many of the original locals are long gone, as it's too expensive to buy a house there.

But to live in such areas and run a car you have to have the income to do it. I don't drive, but even if I did I simply couldn't afford to live in those areas on my income. And the car concerned needs to be a decent vehicle coping with a lot of rural miles, not just hops round town- more money.

I have some sympathy, but that is tempered by the fact that when people get over a certain age their reactions slow considerably, and that can make the difference between life and death for the cyclist or other road user they may collide with. I know the argument is that experience behind the wheel makes this less of an issue than it might be. I am not convinced. I know that my reaction times as a cyclist these days have to be good in modern traffic. The problem is much worse as a motorist. I hope I don't have to live on the difference (and realistically that will have already happened).

if you can afford to live in these sorts of rural areas, you can afford to move to more urban locations. That's the choice you have to make, if you take a responsible attitude to driving.

As far as public transport is concerned, we know the politics of this. The answer lies in the ballot box.

[Cyril Haearn]

I have read of several elderly drivers confusing and throttle and brake, or not applying the handbrake
In one case at least the vehicle rolled away and killed the driver's spouse

The media typically give the age of the driver

[Cyril Haearn]

Prompted by your pseudonym, may one ask how old you are?
You are not obliged to answer

I am 70 this year.

27 years younger than his royal highness
You are not 'old'

[Cunobelin]

My elderly neighbour is a prime example of why drivers should be required to have an eye test and perhaps be re-tested at some point. She is in her mid-nineties, which in itself is not a disqualification for driving. What should have been for years is her very poor eyesight and consequent inability to drive safely. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen her collide with her own gates getting her car out of the garage, fail to park anywhere near the kerb and report getting lost on a familiar route because she was confused by roadworks. The big dent in the neighbour opposite's car is another example of her driving prowess. 2 years ago, her optician must have written to DVLA and she lost her licence but she found a tame optician to say her eyesight was okay and she got it back again, but not before questioning why she should need an eye test, in her own words "I did all that when I got my licence". True, but that was 60-70 years ago

Last week after watching her yet again collide with her own gate I gave serious consideration to notifying DVLA myself. Happily I have since discovered her GP has written to the DVLA and she has again had her licence revoked, so the citizens of this city are now somewhat safer.

The downside for her, despite the fact we live in a city, is that there is no easy public transport route to the supermarket, post office and bank and, whereas she used to get out every day, she is now effectively trapped apart from the community bus she can call up once (maybe twice) a week and which goes to places she doesn't usually frequent and which she finds difficult to access and uncomfortable. When she was without her licence 2 years ago her health and mobility declined significantly due to not getting out and I expect the same to happen again. Whilst I, and other neighbours, can take her to the supermarket or do her shopping for her, it is not the same as being out and about under her own steam and on her own terms.

Another way to interpret this story is to consider what the elderly neighbour could do herself in the changed circumstances of aging and not being able to safely drive. The very first thing she might consider is that she needs to change her ossified thinking. This may be a lot easier (albeit not easy per se) than changing her ossified body.

The first change might be to stop considering only her own desires to realise how they impact upon others, potentially in the form of killing an innocent with her car in an entirely foreseeable "accident".

The second change in thinking she might try would be to realise that the costs of owning & running a car might well provide instead the price of hiring a taxi when she wants to go somewhere.

The third change of thinking she might consider is that there are many physical and mental activities that are health & fitness promoting that can be achieved locally without the need to travel somewhere else in a car or other motorised thing.

It's often assumed by both the aged and those interfacing with them that they can't change other than to lose things because of the predations of age. This is a fallacy. I had a neighbour recently deceased at 98 who led a very active life about the village and in his home, despite voluntarily giving up his license 15 years before he died. For example, he walked to and from his allotment; he organised bus trips of his friends to ballroon dancing events; he walked many of the local dogs for their working owners.....

I feel the car is a mere addiction and can, if it or it's absence is spoiling one's life, be given up as such in favour of more healthy modes of going about.

Cugel

Ironically that is true for many middle aged or younger people as we'll!

In fact they w Ould be even more suited to such a car free lifestyle

[Cunobelin]

And why might that be? You can drive an auto on a manual licence but not the other way round, that implies that automatics are easier to drive as indeed is my experience.

I would have thought that, too. But several on the R4 prog today had pressed the accelerator instead of the brake and I know a number of similar situations. Not very scientific, I'm afraid. Just anecdotes.

That can happen equally on a manual - if not more so because the brake pedal on an auto is generally larger than on the equivalent manual. What is more likely on an auto is accidentally braking with the left foot trying to depress a non-existent clutch. That though can happen to anyone, regardless of age, out of simple habit if they are a recent convert.

I drive a manual as my wife is disabled and cannot manage gears.

Driving is no more difficult or easier than in a manual. The latter simply has an additional skill that is required.

[Airsporter1st]

What is more likely on an auto is accidentally braking with the left foot trying to depress a non-existent clutch. That though can happen to anyone, regardless of age, out of simple habit if they are a recent convert.

Interesting. I acquired my first automatic 6 weeks ago and anticipated having to learn to keep the left foot well out of the way, getting advice such as "tuck the left leg behind the right" Fortunately there is a very large angled platform to support the unnecessary foot and I can push down on this as much as I like.

The only initial problem was getting a smooth initial take up of the drive, especially reverse, but now OK.

My father (in his early 50's, so hardly old by most definitions), used to amuse me enormously when, having driven an automatic for years would jump into my mum's manual car and roar off down the road in first gear. When he then got back into his own car, after having driven the manual for a day, he would drive a few yards and then screech to a halt! As I said, its simply a matter of habit.

Regarding the initial take up of drive, I assume you have an electronically activated manual, rather than a true auto with torque convertor, but nevertheless, take up of drive should still be pretty smooth and not require any special technique. Might be worth getting it checked out.

[Grandad]

Yes, electronically activated manual. Now I've got the hang of it the take-up is smooth - it was the only minor problem with the change from manual.