A Burkean moment for transport

atlas_shrugged
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A Burkean moment for transport

Postby atlas_shrugged » 4 Feb 2019, 7:53pm

A speech by Jesse Norman:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... -transport

And the foresight report that goes with it:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... f-mobility

Here is an example of a fantasy gem the DfT comes up with:

"2039 United Nations Economic Commission for Europe
selects UK as example of best practice in a report on
sustainability in transport"

9494arnold
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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby 9494arnold » 4 Feb 2019, 9:24pm

Haven't read the reports but is someone having a laugh with that last comment.? :roll:

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gaz
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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby gaz » 4 Feb 2019, 9:25pm

A speech that the DfT has published in the "Cycling and Walking" section, despite neither word appearing anywhere in the speech :? .

ANTONISH
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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby ANTONISH » 5 Feb 2019, 8:45am

" In effect, cars created the suburbs and opened up the countryside "
Surely trains and bicycles did that far earlier than the motor car ? - John Betjeman's "Metroland" film is an example.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby atlas_shrugged » 5 Feb 2019, 9:01am

This was a direct quote from the DfT report:

"2039 United Nations Economic Commission for Europe
selects UK as example of best practice in a report on
sustainability in transport"

My guess this was written by a London PR consultant after doing his five lines.

I would agree that cycling and walking is definitely missing from JN speech even though he claims to be a cyclist. Also missing from the report is the contribution to transport made by the cycle. Major towns where cycling rates were/are very high are not mentioned e.g. Oxford, Bedford, Cambridge, Nottingham.

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby Bmblbzzz » 5 Feb 2019, 2:46pm

I'm only halfway through the speech but this stands out:
The key lesson remains, transport is not, and has never been, just about transport. It’s about better connected cities, and better housing. It’s about rural areas and rural connectivity. It’s about loneliness, more inclusive communities and more productive businesses. It’s about society and culture.

It's a truism but still the fact that a minister is saying it in public is a change.

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby Bmblbzzz » 5 Feb 2019, 2:51pm

And now having read the whole speech, that's still the passage that stands out.

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby Vorpal » 5 Feb 2019, 3:00pm

He is correct about the Burkean moment. But I think it is more likely to go badlly than well.

Government have been saying for years (centuries?) that transport is about connecting people, society, housing, etc.

It's how they interpret and implement it that the problem.

I think of it car-free communities, with good public transport, street cafes, and safe routes to shcool. Government ministers tend to think of it as a way to grow the economy, airports, the distribution of goods, etc.

I like the bit about inclusive communities, but does that mean to him, what it means to you or me?
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The utility cyclist
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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby The utility cyclist » 5 Feb 2019, 4:46pm

You only need look at the 'new towns' post WWII to see how the thinking on connecting people/places was really about and still is ... by motorvehicle. Even Caxton's best effort was doomed to fail before it even got off his drawing board; unnecessarily undulating with too many steep inclines that come off a right angle turn that most average folk would struggle to get up, it's circuitous, stop/start far too often and the motorvehicle roads (because that's what they are in essence) are completely the opposite.
Since then things haven't improved, in fact they've got worse, more new towns like Cambourne were promoted as cycling inclusive and there's not even a cycle lane joining it to Cambridge, the other option is the horrid narrow NSL single carriageway :evil: They latterly planned a busway direct, was there any plan for a cycle lane alongside it, not a chance and that's repeated that across the country.

UK being touted as best practice for sustainable transport is 100% a big fat lie. :twisted:
Whatever JN might/might not say, it's words, they're meaningless frankly.

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby MikeF » 5 Feb 2019, 11:26pm

It's all very well saying that the future is electric cars, but if those cars are the size of today's cars then a lot of electrical energy will have to be supplied from somewhere. I'm not sure any technology will overcome that. I don't think he has looked at the sums. :wink:
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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby landsurfer » 5 Feb 2019, 11:31pm

And the batteries !!! My God, the batteries !!!
Nissan Leaf .. carbon footprint of the car is 42% of the carbon footprint of its battery !!
RSF.
Audax UK.
The road goes on forever.

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby Barks » 6 Feb 2019, 8:37am

I was once told that the most carbon efficient decision is to run your old ICEcar as long as possible - the carbon footprint of building the car greatly exceeds that of the lifetime fuel used irrespective of type or efficiency. Does anybody know the truth of this? I’m pretty sure though that if it is the car manufacturers would be lobbying hard to refute it. That doesn’t solve the wider pollution problem of NOX and particulates though oh and the even older concern, lead.

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby pwa » 6 Feb 2019, 9:01am

I'm sure that if it were made cheap enough a lot of us could be replacing car journeys with journeys in smaller, lighter electric vehicles with enough range for local use. Ten miles to work, ten miles back, park on the drive and plug in. Enough room for self and a few bags. The car equivalent of a Vespa, but electric.

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby Vorpal » 6 Feb 2019, 9:12am

The most carbon efficient decision is not to own a car. If you've got one, it's best to leave it sit and take your bike, or the bus. If you must use it, it depends on the car, but yes, using an older car as long as possible is likely to be better for the environment than buying a new car.
But if you must get a car...
landsurfer wrote:And the batteries !!! My God, the batteries !!!
Nissan Leaf .. carbon footprint of the car is 42% of the carbon footprint of its battery !!


Umm, I think that 24%, rather than 42%. But in either case, the lifetime carbon footprint of a Nissan Leaf is still substantially lower than other vehicles of the same size, and lower than most other automobiles.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Re: A Burkean moment for transport

Postby Bmblbzzz » 6 Feb 2019, 9:35am

Vorpal wrote:
landsurfer wrote:And the batteries !!! My God, the batteries !!!
Nissan Leaf .. carbon footprint of the car is 42% of the carbon footprint of its battery !!


Umm, I think that 24%, rather than 42%. But in either case, the lifetime carbon footprint of a Nissan Leaf is still substantially lower than other vehicles of the same size, and lower than most other automobiles.

Regardless of whether it's 24% or 42%, it must be the other way round: the carbon footprint of the entire vehicle can't possibly be less than the footprint of one of its components.