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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 3 Mar 2019, 10:06am
by brynpoeth
Quite satisfied with the poll results this time :wink:
What might be the best phrase to describe transfer from motor to cycle?

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 3 Mar 2019, 10:55am
by SimonCelsa
What might be the best phrase to describe transfer from motor to cycle?


'Evolution' or 'natural selection' are two phrases which spring to mind!

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 3 Mar 2019, 5:52pm
by Wanlock Dod
brynpoeth wrote:What might be the best phrase to describe transfer from motor to cycle?

I believe that modal change, or something like that is the generally accepted term.

The main driver for it, at least in urban areas is probably increasing congestion, with associated decreasing speeds of motorised traffic. One of the biggest benefits of focusing solely on the promotion of car travel perhaps?

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 3 Mar 2019, 6:46pm
by RickH
Wanlock Dod wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:What might be the best phrase to describe transfer from motor to cycle?

I believe that modal change, or something like that is the generally accepted term.

The main driver for it, at least in urban areas is probably increasing congestion, with associated decreasing speeds of motorised traffic. One of the biggest benefits of focusing solely on the promotion of car travel perhaps?

Even the petrolheads are getting wise to this! :shock: I get twice weekly local fuel price updates plus a newletter. One of the links on 21st Feb was "It’s quicker to cycle than drive in UK cities, says report"
As UK roads get more and more congested, it seems that some drivers will have to become what they have, on the whole, despised for years. A cyclist. INRIX is saying it could now be quicker to cycle than to drive if you commute into a city centre.

In many major UK cities, cars are travelling slower than the average cyclist does on the last mile of their journey. A new report by INRIX, a big data company specialising in roads, found that it was quicker to cycle than to drive, based on last mile speed in 6 major UK cities.

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 11 Mar 2019, 6:16am
by brynpoeth
Got to drive to work again today, Minus One
But my planned car-free retirement is getting closer :)

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 13 Mar 2019, 8:57pm
by Labrat
brynpoeth wrote:Big cycling events often involve TDC, the tragedy of drive-cycling, one might drive 200 miles to cycle 100



That’s right, because if theres one thing that the cycling world needs its more people going round telling other people that they’re somehow doing cycling ‘wrong’.

Here’s a thought. How about ‘all cycling is good’ no matter how, where or why you are doing it, or how you got there.

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 7:23am
by Cugel
Labrat wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Big cycling events often involve TDC, the tragedy of drive-cycling, one might drive 200 miles to cycle 100



That’s right, because if theres one thing that the cycling world needs its more people going round telling other people that they’re somehow doing cycling ‘wrong’.

Here’s a thought. How about ‘all cycling is good’ no matter how, where or why you are doing it, or how you got there.


Few human activities are all good (or all bad). Few human activities come in a nice simple and singular form unconnected to a hundred other human activities that are necessary or chosen precursors. All human activities have some form of consequence outside of their immediate or intended effects.

Here's a thought, then: how about "cycling can be analysed and discussed concerning it's varying effects just like any other human activity".

Here's another thought: zeolots wholly for or against something should examine their inclination to be zealous.

Cugel

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 9:04am
by reohn2
Labrat wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Big cycling events often involve TDC, the tragedy of drive-cycling, one might drive 200 miles to cycle 100



That’s right, because if theres one thing that the cycling world needs its more people going round telling other people that they’re somehow doing cycling ‘wrong’.

Here’s a thought. How about ‘all cycling is good’ no matter how, where or why you are doing it, or how you got there.

That's way too simple for some to understand :?

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 2:45pm
by mmcnay
[Here's another thought: zeolots wholly for or against something should examine their inclination to be zealous.]

Very good Cugel. I often think that finger pointers would be better served examining their own actions, rather than hiding behind their outrage at the actions of others.

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 2:57pm
by TrevA
brynpoeth wrote:Got to drive to work again today, Minus One
But my planned car-free retirement is getting closer :)




I did try living car free for about a year. Fine cycling everywhere I the summer, not so good in the depths of winter. I find that it's not always practical to cycle, sometimes you have to use the bus. In general, activities take longer without a car and have to be planned in advance. I did manage to do the weekly shop on 2 wheels, using panniers and a shopping trolley strapped to the rear rack. The journey back from the supermarket involved a mile long 12% climb, so I was glad of a granny gear on the triple chainset.

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 14 Mar 2019, 6:20pm
by Wanlock Dod
Going car free in this country is always going to be a challenge, but there are probably quite a few households that could reasonably manage without a second car if they had an e-bike and a folding bike, at least in an urban area. That could transfer quite a few journeys from car to bike, and many of those journeys would be relatively short ones, potentially in quite congested places.

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 15 Mar 2019, 4:55am
by brynpoeth
Labrat wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Big cycling events often involve TDC, the tragedy of drive-cycling, one might drive 200 miles to cycle 100



That’s right, because if theres one thing that the cycling world needs its more people going round telling other people that they’re somehow doing cycling ‘wrong’.

Here’s a thought. How about ‘all cycling is good’ no matter how, where or why you are doing it, or how you got there.

Not 'telling' : urging, suggesting, people have choices, by not doing TDC I do not suffer, I save money, time, energy, aggravation. For me it is no sacrifice to cycle only from home
There is already far too much motor traffic, too much travelling altogether

'All cycling is good'?
Only if motoring is reduced by much more than the increase in cycling
I do not want more cycling where I cycle

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 15 Mar 2019, 4:59am
by brynpoeth
Wanlock Dod wrote:Going car free in this country is always going to be a challenge, but there are probably quite a few households that could reasonably manage without a second car if they had an e-bike and a folding bike, at least in an urban area. That could transfer quite a few journeys from car to bike, and many of those journeys would be relatively short ones, potentially in quite congested places.

In London many rich people don't bother with a car, it would be too much trouble
Many people can choose to live near work (many can not), for those lucky enough to live alone doing without a vehicle can be easy, I did so for many years

There are some car-free people on here, deliquim & gbnz for example
..
I am not a zealot wholly for or against something [except perhaps traffic law enforcement, very much in favour of that]
I think a reduction in motor traffic of 50% would be realistic

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 15 Mar 2019, 8:15am
by reohn2
brynpoeth wrote: ........I think a reduction in motor traffic of 50% would be realistic

So that's what you'd really like to see?
Cycling alone wouldn't do that,reliable,affordable,clean and effecient public transport would tick the boxes for most people on short to medium range travel with cycling an alternative for short hop travel,but the answer is investment in infrastructure,something successive governments have failed miserably on preferring to spend,spend,spend,on roads and motoring,leaving commuter and leisure travellers alike with little choice but to use the car.
The spin offs from that shortsighted approach is increasing pollution made worse by slow or standing traffic in towns and cities on overburdened roads and huge outlay of taxes on such a dead end transport strategy,resulting in high numbers of citizens dying or sick as a result.
It could be so much better but won't be until someone by necessity begins to think outside the box,though with motoring bringing in so much tax revenue it'll be an uphill struggle for any forward thinking government and the UK has been short on those for a very long time where a transport strategy,or any other strategy FTM,is concerned..

Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Posted: 15 Mar 2019, 8:39am
by Cugel
brynpoeth wrote:
Wanlock Dod wrote:Going car free in this country is always going to be a challenge, but there are probably quite a few households that could reasonably manage without a second car if they had an e-bike and a folding bike, at least in an urban area. That could transfer quite a few journeys from car to bike, and many of those journeys would be relatively short ones, potentially in quite congested places.

In London many rich people don't bother with a car, it would be too much trouble
Many people can choose to live near work (many can not), for those lucky enough to live alone doing without a vehicle can be easy, I did so for many years

There are some car-free people on here, deliquim & gbnz for example
..
I am not a zealot wholly for or against something [except perhaps traffic law enforcement, very much in favour of that]
I think a reduction in motor traffic of 50% would be realistic


Zealotry agin' the car often tempts me. I didn't have one 'til I was 40 and have always disliked the stinking dangerous things. even whilst admiring the clever engineering. I now have one and use it. This rankles as I would like a world without them.

Here lies the problem. Our world and society are configured now for cars. We are assumed to have access to their facility and to not care about the damage they cause. Those who love them are not regarded as dangerous addicts but as "normal". Those without must suffer large inconvenience to the point of being discriminated against.

Bryn makes what I would call empty gestures (the crossing button thing). I make empty wishful thunks and rants agin' the car, often just before going out in one.

We are all dysfunctional and stuffed with cognitive dissonance, illogic, paradoxical pirouettes and all the other mental tangles of human life, especially modern human life. What to do about it all? I don't know, so just keep wandering along the cultural highways, not brave enough to enter the tanglewood of truly radical alternative behaviours to either side. Those woods are dark and deep!

Cugel