A red rag to the motoring lobby

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661-Pete
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby 661-Pete » 27 Mar 2019, 7:22pm

al_yrpal wrote:When I was in Canada OSMand + drove me mad with verbal warnings that I was exceeding the speed limit.... :lol:

Simple really. Google now has speed camera warnings I have just noticed.
Many years ago, sitting as a passenger on a business trip, I was being driven spare by incessant fortissimo 'whoops' from the Satnav (an early-generation one I guess) which - as I had explained to me - were warnings of a speed camera ahead. I asked my colleague if this function could be turned off, but apparently not.

I thought such warnings were illegal now? Don't know about Canada, but I remember, driving in the USA, that each time we crossed a State boundary we came across signs informing drivers that speed camera warning devices were illegal in this state. If in the USA, what about UK and Europe?

As to warnings that one is over the speed limit - there's a simple solution to that.... :wink: :lol:
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thirdcrank
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby thirdcrank » 27 Mar 2019, 7:26pm

al_yrpal wrote: ... This will kill new car sales and second hand car prices will soar. ....


The ideal opportunity for anybody with an old banger. :wink:

My own feeling is that something like this is often the result of lobbying from manufacturers. At present, the marketing gurus are unsure which way to go, particularly with so-called driverless cars. Traditionally, the latest technology has been fitted to top-end models first and is then gradually made available to the hoi polloi (Just the same as with pedal cycles.) Few people will shell out for a truly top-end car if it has built-in restrictions on the owners' ability to put their foot down (or to instruct a lackey to do it on their behalf.) This way, the self-driving technology sells under the guise of "driver assist" or whatever you like to call it.

A lot of what's being made compulsory is there already: eg with regard to shunts, we've a basic model Fabia that apparently does something if you get too close to the vehicle in front. I cannot remember what it's supposed to do and for reasons connected with my style of driving I've never experienced it.

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Mick F
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby Mick F » 27 Mar 2019, 7:29pm

We have a TomTom, and we get speed camera updates.
The device beeps when you approach a camera even though you are below the speed limit.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby al_yrpal » 27 Mar 2019, 7:36pm

thirdcrank wrote:
al_yrpal wrote: ... This will kill new car sales and second hand car prices will soar. ....


The ideal opportunity for anybody with an old banger. :wink:



Problem is my 1980 VW Camper can only do about 60! :lol:

And...the speed limit warnings in Osmad+ are nothing to do with Canada, the reason I was using it with a downloaded map was to avoid phone data charges.

Al
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thirdcrank
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby thirdcrank » 27 Mar 2019, 7:42pm

al_yrpal wrote: ... Problem is my 1980 VW Camper can only do about 60! :lol: ...


My problem is failing memory: I thought you had one of those pinnacles of British manufacturing excellence, a Triumph Stag

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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby al_yrpal » 27 Mar 2019, 7:52pm

thirdcrank wrote:
al_yrpal wrote: ... Problem is my 1980 VW Camper can only do about 60! :lol: ...


My problem is failing memory: I thought you had one of those pinnacles of British manufacturing excellence, a Triumph Stag


I did have a Stag, but sold it and moved on to another money pit, the VW. Stag was a great car, never let me down. The Camper has, it broke down on the A303 right next to Stonehenge!

Al
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby Bmblbzzz » 27 Mar 2019, 8:00pm

Mick F wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:
Mick F wrote:One, the speedos are variously accurate or inaccurate, and two, how does the car know what the speed limit is at any one point other than by GPS?

GPS is one method but the technology specified by the proposal is based on cameras reading speed limit signs. I'm slightly surprised this works, but it does: Vauxhall for one have been using it for years.

As to whether the system will take the vehicle's speed from speedometer readings or GPS, I expect it will come from the 'black box' (data recorder) also to be fitted under the current proposals, so a combination of GPS and accelerometer data.
That sounds right.

Mind you, I don't remember seeing a 70mph sign entering a motorway, or on a dual carriageway.
I suppose non-car derived vans will have a different system, and when you connect up a trailer to the back of the car, it'll re-program the system.

I don't recall seeing the UK NSL sign in any other country. I guess it will have to be programmed in specially. What sign, if any, do they have on unrestricted German autobahns?

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al_yrpal
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby al_yrpal » 27 Mar 2019, 8:10pm

It says in a Times newspaper article that the system is based on gps and map data, not traffic signs. Traffic signs would be useless. You drive out of a B and B gate into a 30mph zone. How would the device know, there would only be 30mph signs where the speed limit changes?

Osmand+ knows immediately and so did my Road Angel more than 10 years ago. The technology exists within todays sat navs.

Al
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thirdcrank
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby thirdcrank » 27 Mar 2019, 8:16pm

I've just noticed that the Daily Telegraph's take on this is that Tory MEP Daniel Dalton is claiming that "we" prevented the European Commission making speed limiters compulsory. I don't know who he is including in "we." Actually, until I just checked his Wiki entry, I could just as easily have said "I don't know who he is."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Da ... politician)
Perhaps some of us have paid too little attention to European elections.

Anyway, in terms of the steam likely to be generated in some parts of forum membership, "other features in the bill include a ban on seasonal clock changes...."

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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby pwa » 27 Mar 2019, 8:51pm

al_yrpal wrote:It says in a Times newspaper article that the system is based on gps and map data, not traffic signs. Traffic signs would be useless. You drive out of a B and B gate into a 30mph zone. How would the device know, there would only be 30mph signs where the speed limit changes?

Osmand+ knows immediately and so did my Road Angel more than 10 years ago. The technology exists within todays sat navs.

Al

It will need a bit of sharpening up though. Both my Garmin satnav and its Tom Tom predecessor give the wrong speed limit on bits of road I know well. Even after updates.

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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby mjr » 27 Mar 2019, 9:26pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:I don't recall seeing the UK NSL sign in any other country. I guess it will have to be programmed in specially. What sign, if any, do they have on unrestricted German autobahns?

Fairly similar to the UK NSL one:
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby thelawnet » 27 Mar 2019, 9:27pm

This seems like lies, in that anyone who has ever looked at the options list for new cars will see that 'speed limit sign recognition' is already a selling point for cars, and not at all 'anti-motorist' - in fact it helps in that if you are in say a 40mph zone, it will tell you, rather than braking to 30mph when you see a camera ahead on the off chance you didn't see the sign.

There are no speed limiters at all, just a better form of cruise control.

The real issue is not the 'speed limiter', but the black box. These are already feared by new drivers in that if you go out at the wrong time, or don't drive very gently, they will cancel your insurance.

Whereas with normal insurance you can drive how you like.

One presumes that the black box data will be automatically used in accidents, which can only be a good thing, so that leaves the question of whether it will routinely be required by insurers, and hence the insurers would take over road policing in large regard. I doubt it somehow but who knows?

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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby RickH » 27 Mar 2019, 9:42pm

al_yrpal wrote:It says in a Times newspaper article that the system is based on gps and map data, not traffic signs. Traffic signs would be useless. You drive out of a B and B gate into a 30mph zone. How would the device know, there would only be 30mph signs where the speed limit changes?

Osmand+ knows immediately and so did my Road Angel more than 10 years ago. The technology exists within todays sat navs.

Al

Traffic signs are useful where the limit has changed (it might take a while to filter through unless there is a standardised system for linked vehicles to get updates)or there are temporary limits in force.

For instance, the looooong slip road that I sometimes use from the A580 in Salford onto the M61 has had a temporary 50 for a while, but when I used it yesterday part of it now has 40 signs. It would be hard to keep a map based system that up to date.

Also just thought - there needs to be a way for the system to recognise variable speed limits on "smart" motorways.

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Mick F
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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby Mick F » 28 Mar 2019, 8:24am

............. and as I asked earlier, the system has to know if you've connected up your trailer.
Towing cars have different NSL to non-towing cars.
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: A red rag to the motoring lobby

Postby pwa » 28 Mar 2019, 8:37am

RickH wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:It says in a Times newspaper article that the system is based on gps and map data, not traffic signs. Traffic signs would be useless. You drive out of a B and B gate into a 30mph zone. How would the device know, there would only be 30mph signs where the speed limit changes?

Osmand+ knows immediately and so did my Road Angel more than 10 years ago. The technology exists within todays sat navs.

Al

Traffic signs are useful where the limit has changed (it might take a while to filter through unless there is a standardised system for linked vehicles to get updates)or there are temporary limits in force.

For instance, the looooong slip road that I sometimes use from the A580 in Salford onto the M61 has had a temporary 50 for a while, but when I used it yesterday part of it now has 40 signs. It would be hard to keep a map based system that up to date.

Also just thought - there needs to be a way for the system to recognise variable speed limits on "smart" motorways.

As the BBC were reporting it, it will be a hybrid of GPS and actual reading of road signs, the latter presumably dealing with variable or reduced speed limits.