Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

kwackers
Posts: 13566
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby kwackers » 2 Jul 2019, 8:52am

pwa wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Motron is the word, or moturd perhaps

Motard is French for motorcyclist, a two-wheeled friend


(my bold)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48826650

Shame I'm not French they'd be my friend as opposed to the contraction of two words I intend.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1810
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Jul 2019, 8:59am

Here's a thought. I suspect that, relatively, there are as many cycling as motoring idiots. A cycling idiot causes less harm but they are still idiots.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 2 Jul 2019, 1:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
John

Cycling and recycling

kwackers
Posts: 13566
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby kwackers » 2 Jul 2019, 9:02am

Oldjohnw wrote:Here's a thought. I suspect that, relatively, ther are as many cycling as motoring idiots.

Yep, we need a word for cycling idiots.
Cyclards?

Perhaps we can add 'ard' to activity being done by idiots?

rfryer
Posts: 661
Joined: 7 Feb 2013, 3:58pm

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby rfryer » 2 Jul 2019, 10:07am

Perhaps we can prepend bad/incompetent/thoughtless to collections of people that perform an activity in that way, in order to create greater specificity? Why the need for new words; is it just to build a clique?

Yours grumpily, but inclusively,

rfryer

kwackers
Posts: 13566
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby kwackers » 2 Jul 2019, 10:17am

rfryer wrote:Perhaps we can prepend bad/incompetent/thoughtless to collections of people that perform an activity in that way, in order to create greater specificity? Why the need for new words; is it just to build a clique?

Yours grumpily, but inclusively,

rfryer

Prepended words both change a word into a (too) long phrase and diminish the contempt I feel for such people.
Motard implies every kind of bad: incompetence, thoughtlessness and outright aggression into a single easy to wield word.

I predict its inclusion into the Oxford English Dictionary in fairly short order and then these discussions can cease. ;)

reohn2
Posts: 35920
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jul 2019, 10:26am

rfryer wrote:Perhaps we can prepend bad/incompetent/thoughtless to collections of people that perform an activity in that way, in order to create greater specificity? Why the need for new words; is it just to build a clique?

Yours grumpily, but inclusively,

rfryer

I'd agree with that.
Person riding a bi/tri/quadcycle= cyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person riding motorcycle(however many wheels) = motorcyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person driving a car = motorist whether of sound mind and action or not.

Prejudice is,thankfully,in the minority,to join in the prejudice is to increase the problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

mattheus
Posts: 730
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby mattheus » 2 Jul 2019, 11:04am

reohn2 wrote:
rfryer wrote:Perhaps we can prepend bad/incompetent/thoughtless to collections of people that perform an activity in that way, in order to create greater specificity? Why the need for new words; is it just to build a clique?

Yours grumpily, but inclusively,

rfryer

I'd agree with that.
Person riding a bi/tri/quadcycle= cyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person riding motorcycle(however many wheels) = motorcyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person driving a car = motorist whether of sound mind and action or not.

Prejudice is,thankfully,in the minority,to join in the prejudice is to increase the problem.

And I'd add that use of any word is mainly about context. If we use the word "motorist" - for example - in a reasonable, respectful manner, then all should be well; the context should make clear whether a *specific* driver is worthy of praise or shame.

reohn2
Posts: 35920
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jul 2019, 1:04pm

mattheus wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
rfryer wrote:Perhaps we can prepend bad/incompetent/thoughtless to collections of people that perform an activity in that way, in order to create greater specificity? Why the need for new words; is it just to build a clique?

Yours grumpily, but inclusively,

rfryer

I'd agree with that.
Person riding a bi/tri/quadcycle= cyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person riding motorcycle(however many wheels) = motorcyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person driving a car = motorist whether of sound mind and action or not.

Prejudice is,thankfully,in the minority,to join in the prejudice is to increase the problem.

And I'd add that use of any word is mainly about context. If we use the word "motorist" - for example - in a reasonable, respectful manner, then all should be well; the context should make clear whether a *specific* driver is worthy of praise or shame.

Agreed,rather than terms like PoB or Motard or similar being used to describe people who don't fit the clique mentality of those who use such generalities.
Last edited by reohn2 on 2 Jul 2019, 2:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1810
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Jul 2019, 1:46pm

mattheus wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
rfryer wrote:Perhaps we can prepend bad/incompetent/thoughtless to collections of people that perform an activity in that way, in order to create greater specificity? Why the need for new words; is it just to build a clique?

Yours grumpily, but inclusively,

rfryer

I'd agree with that.
Person riding a bi/tri/quadcycle= cyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person riding motorcycle(however many wheels) = motorcyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person driving a car = motorist whether of sound mind and action or not.

Prejudice is,thankfully,in the minority,to join in the prejudice is to increase the problem.

And I'd add that use of any word is mainly about context. If we use the word "motorist" - for example - in a reasonable, respectful manner, then all should be well; the context should make clear whether a *specific* driver is worthy of praise or shame.


The terms 'motard' or 'motron' are too often, in my view, used indiscriminately ie to describe all who drive a motor vehicle.
John

Cycling and recycling

kwackers
Posts: 13566
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby kwackers » 2 Jul 2019, 2:15pm

Words are used to give you a quick handle on something.

What is a cyclist? To me it's a vague concept of someone riding something that requires peddling.
On the other hand if I hear mamil or pob or ninja I immediately have a mental image above and beyond that generic term.

A motorist is another generalised figure whose driving is non-descript. A motard on the other hand is driving in fairly specific way.

FWIW I'm not a fan of the word "cyclist", I prefer to think of myself as a pob. Given I don't wear lyrca, team colours or even anything cycling specific and my bike is a fairly non-descript bike with a pannier attached I feel pob is a better match for what I am.
Cyclist lumps everyone into the same bucket, pob is more specific.

Embrace the new words, life is too short to make up long flowery descriptions in order to get across a simple concept.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1810
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Jul 2019, 4:31pm

Personally, I couldn't give a tuppeny stuff what I'm called. I ride a bike and occasionally drive a car. I try always to respect others.
John

Cycling and recycling

kwackers
Posts: 13566
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby kwackers » 2 Jul 2019, 4:40pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Personally, I couldn't give a tuppeny stuff what I'm called. I ride a bike and occasionally drive a car. I try always to respect others.

From now on you'll forever be a "respectomoclist" to me.

rfryer
Posts: 661
Joined: 7 Feb 2013, 3:58pm

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby rfryer » 2 Jul 2019, 6:05pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
mattheus wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I'd agree with that.
Person riding a bi/tri/quadcycle= cyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person riding motorcycle(however many wheels) = motorcyclist whether of sound mind and action or not
Person driving a car = motorist whether of sound mind and action or not.

Prejudice is,thankfully,in the minority,to join in the prejudice is to increase the problem.

And I'd add that use of any word is mainly about context. If we use the word "motorist" - for example - in a reasonable, respectful manner, then all should be well; the context should make clear whether a *specific* driver is worthy of praise or shame.


The terms 'motard' or 'motron' are too often, in my view, used indiscriminately ie to describe all who drive a motor vehicle.

Actually, I've got no real idea how they are used - only how I tend to interpret them. Which is kind of the point - there's no point using language where it's well-known that some readers will misinterpret your meaning.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 13760
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby mjr » 2 Jul 2019, 6:23pm

Oldjohnw wrote:The terms 'motard' or 'motron' are too often, in my view, used indiscriminately ie to describe all who drive a motor vehicle.

Does that view say more about the reader than the writer, though?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

brynpoeth
Posts: 11016
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Should we stop using the word 'cyclists'?

Postby brynpoeth » 2 Jul 2019, 6:36pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Here's a thought. I suspect that, relatively, there are as many cycling as motoring idiots. A cycling idiot causes less harm but they are still idiots.

Another similarity: one of the main dangers created by cyclards is going too fast (not infrequently exceeding the maximum speed limit) :(
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life