Traffic calming

robing
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Traffic calming

Postby robing » 4 Apr 2019, 6:35pm

It occurred to me that pretty much all traffic calming eg chicanes, traffic Islands etc are bad news for cyclists as they create pinch points which can cause bad drivers to try and pass you when it is not safe to do so.

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Re: Traffic calming

Postby Vorpal » 4 Apr 2019, 6:54pm

That is because they are badly designed. Chicanes can have cycle bypasses, but if they are included in the UK, they are often too narrow.

Raised pedestrians crossings and speed bumps can also be installed in ways that are no problem for cyclists, but effective at slowing passenger cars & larger vehicles.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby thirdcrank » 4 Apr 2019, 7:10pm

The CTC used to publish a briefing document about traffic calming illustrated by Johnny Helms. Priceless.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 4 Apr 2019, 8:07pm

They took all the pinch points out around these parts some years ago as there were some horrific head-on collisions at the sites - the carncil turned an annoying speeding problem into an alarming dead and maimed people problem. Only the sensible drivers slow down, and the idiots are simply encouraged to take even more risks as they desperately try to squeeze through rather than give way.

One set actually had cycle lanes incorporated, but some nice motorists simply used them as a means of avoiding having to queue by driving through with 2 wheels in the cycle lane, 2 on the footway.

These physical measures seem to penalise the sensible while doing little to stop the antics of the loonies. We need a cadre of dedicated traffic cops, marked and unmarked, to be out there catching these chumps. When I was a teen I only had to think about doing something naughty on my motorbike and plod would feel my collar. Now Attila the Hun could hoon about our roads with little chance of coming a cropper.
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gaz
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby gaz » 4 Apr 2019, 9:11pm

Hand wash only. Do not iron.

pwa
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby pwa » 5 Apr 2019, 11:17am

This is the sort of defective traffic calming Vorpal was referring to.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5948546 ... 6?hl=en-GB

There is a theoretical channel for cyclists at the side but it is too narrow, it is inaccessible to road sweepers, and I would not use it. But, on the large estate where this is, since such features went in the traffic moves slower. Looking at the effect as a whole, it has improved things. Could be better though.

reohn2
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby reohn2 » 5 Apr 2019, 11:22am

Vorpal wrote:That is because they are badly designed. Chicanes can have cycle bypasses, but if they are included in the UK, they are often too narrow.

Raised pedestrians crossings and speed bumps can also be installed in ways that are no problem for cyclists, but effective at slowing passenger cars & larger vehicles.

Agreed,it's all down to design with all traffic in mind,around here such calming measures range from the sublime to the downright unbelievable :?
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby reohn2 » 5 Apr 2019, 11:27am

pwa wrote:This is the sort of defective traffic calming Vorpal was referring to.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5948546 ... 6?hl=en-GB

There is a theoretical channel for cyclists at the side but it is too narrow, it is inaccessible to road sweepers, and I would not use it. But, on the large estate where this is, since such features went in the traffic moves slower. Looking at the effect as a whole, it has improved things. Could be better though.

Are those channels cycle lanes or simply water gulleys?
I for one wouldn't ride in them,as you rightly state they're too narrow,and most likely full of puncture inducing detritus
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pwa
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby pwa » 5 Apr 2019, 11:40am

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:This is the sort of defective traffic calming Vorpal was referring to.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5948546 ... 6?hl=en-GB

There is a theoretical channel for cyclists at the side but it is too narrow, it is inaccessible to road sweepers, and I would not use it. But, on the large estate where this is, since such features went in the traffic moves slower. Looking at the effect as a whole, it has improved things. Could be better though.

Are those channels cycle lanes or simply water gulleys?
I for one wouldn't ride in them,as you rightly state they're too narrow,and most likely full of puncture inducing detritus

Actually, dunno! They could just be drainage. You're probably right. But elsewhere on that estate there are similar speed bumps without the pinch point feature, and that would be my preference. The ones I'm thinking of might require you to move in towards the kerb a bit to avoid the bump completely, possibly as close as 18 inches, but that might be better than having to move further out.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5983438 ... 6?hl=en-GB

I've been driving around that estate occasionally on business for a couple of decades, and imperfect / annoying though all the speed bump stuff is it has calmed things down. It feels safer.

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Re: Traffic calming

Postby mjr » 5 Apr 2019, 12:23pm

https://showmystreet.com/#0vcpa0_3qml_g27_1-3 is an example of the speed bumps Vorpal mentioned. When you're used to Norfolk's sawtoothed nightmares, encountering proper sinusoidal humps is quite unsettling. You can see on the current streetview that the minibus really is tipped up by it, whereas bicycles and importantly recumbent tricycles with little ground clearance barely feel them - just a gentle rocking.
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kwackers
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby kwackers » 5 Apr 2019, 12:48pm

pwa wrote:Actually, dunno! They could just be drainage. You're probably right. But elsewhere on that estate there are similar speed bumps without the pinch point feature, and that would be my preference. The ones I'm thinking of might require you to move in towards the kerb a bit to avoid the bump completely, possibly as close as 18 inches, but that might be better than having to move further out.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5983438 ... 6?hl=en-GB

I've been driving around that estate occasionally on business for a couple of decades, and imperfect / annoying though all the speed bump stuff is it has calmed things down. It feels safer.

Defo drainage. A MTB wouldn't even get it's tyres down there.

Here's something similar near me. These work well and since they put the double yellows down to stop the cars parking in the bike lane it's been pretty good.
https://www.google/maps/

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Re: Traffic calming

Postby Vorpal » 5 Apr 2019, 1:22pm

pwa wrote:Actually, dunno! They could just be drainage. You're probably right. But elsewhere on that estate there are similar speed bumps without the pinch point feature, and that would be my preference. The ones I'm thinking of might require you to move in towards the kerb a bit to avoid the bump completely, possibly as close as 18 inches, but that might be better than having to move further out.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5983438 ... 6?hl=en-GB

I've been driving around that estate occasionally on business for a couple of decades, and imperfect / annoying though all the speed bump stuff is it has calmed things down. It feels safer.

The two piece speed bumps are used because they are pre-fab & generally cheaper than built-in-place ones. I don't mind those, though I usually go down the middle between them, rather than along the kerb. There were a fair number of those around Basildon when I lived in Essex, and they are used on a road near me, now.

kwackers wrote:Defo drainage. A MTB wouldn't even get it's tyres down there.

Here's something similar near me. These work well and since they put the double yellows down to stop the cars parking in the bike lane it's been pretty good.
https://www.google/maps/

That's is that sort of thing I was thinking of when I wrote 'cycle bypass', though that one still looks narrow--a trailer or trike would not fit down it--but it's better than many I've seen.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Apr 2019, 3:34pm

gaz wrote:https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/traffic-calming


For a fleeting moment I thought you had come to the rescue with the document I mentioned above. I've checked my vast archives but unfortunately my copy must have gone in one of my occasional clearouts.

Farrina
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Re: Traffic calming

Postby Farrina » 5 Apr 2019, 5:14pm

Around here, Liverpool City Council Highways appear to have taken traffic calming incompetence to a whole new level.

Albeit not recent, scenario thus :

A local distributor road Gateacre Park Drive https://goo.gl/maps/MrWKZsPKuU22 apparently has a signed cycle route crossing it. If you look carefully at the link above, you can see an offset crossroad - the left road is quite a pull, at least a 1:9 so hardly a busy cycle route, uphill at least.

Apparently some “spare” European funding going (remember those days before everyone and his dog joined the EU and the funds went east!).

The whole basis of the scheme was to protect the vast hordes of cyclists crossing this junction (note no survey done).

The solution - install a half mile section of humps and cushions with the entrance to each end of the scheme protected by a barrier forcing you to give way to oncoming traffic.

Additional highlights are a very narrow painted cycle lane in one direction and for the other, heavens above, the “luxury” of a bypass lane (80cm wide). Oh did i mention they reduced the speed limit to 20mph (not withstanding, at the time all smaller side roads continued to have a 30mph limit).

End result ?

First morning (as they had failed to undertake a traffic volume survey) traffic chaos as the rush hour queues to enter the scheme were over half a mile long. These were removed within days.

The locals immediately switched to using parallel routes so traffic hugely increased on narrower residential roads to the extent desperate residents were using wheelie bins to block their roads to traffic. I still marvel to this day as to how such an obvious consequence was not anticipated by the Highway Engineers (i use the term lightly). I recall this aspect even being mentioned on the floor of the House of Commons by the local MP as an example of how not to implement such a scheme - if i can find the Hansard link, i’ll post it.

Added later here's the link https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2001-02-09a.1210.1 Note there are some factual errors eg Gateacre Park Drive is erroneously referred to as Gateacre Road

The ultimate solution to this chaos ?

No, not to take it all out (after all we must not been seen to have made a mistake with public funds) but to install a blizzard of humps and cushions on a multitude of side roads that previously did not need them (still left speed limit there at 30mph mind).

From a cycling perspective it was (and continues to be) a disaster.

Cycling bypass lanes not swept.

Cars parked obstructing entrance to same (assuming you are mad enough to use one - remember 80 cm wide)

Cars attempting to straddle speed cushions (drivers are focussed on-this rather than wider road scene) forever cutting up cyclists.

The alternative route - Childwall Lane/Score Lane now has 18 vicious humps which are not conducive to comfortable bike riding.

The unfortunate residents of Gateacre Park Drive (who were not consulted - remember this is allegedly a safety scheme) are driven mad by the constant thud of traffic impacting the humps/cushions. Skip wagons are apparently particularly feared as empty skips bounce on the truck bed and crash back down like a drum

Traffic sails on at 30 mph plus ....

Obviously i don't go any where near it on my bike, although i notice when using my car that the tramline effect of traffic straddling the cushions is very effective at destroying the road surface.

When Highways (using the excuse of a new local Aldi store) attempted to extend them further onto the entire length of Gateacre Park Drive and yet more side roads, local residents fought a 18 month battle to successfully defeat the same.

As a life long cyclist my view is that Highway Engineers rarely, if ever, ride bikes .....