BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

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Mick F
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby Mick F » 7 May 2019, 10:53am

Back in the day when I was driving Plymouth/Portsmouth, they installed the Bridport Bypass and the Dorchester Bypass.
It was quicker to go through the town centres!
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby ChrisButch » 7 May 2019, 11:33am

thirdcrank wrote:Purely subjective, but I fancy that in many of the market towns bypassed on the A1 and other main roads, the local traffic is now heavier than the through traffic was when they were by-passed. That's especially so if you include late evenings.
I would say 'most' rather than 'many'.
Topical example close to me is Cullompton. Before the M5 was built the A38 ran through the town centre, and was the last obstacle driving south before the notorious Exeter bypass. But now the town centre traffic has become so heavy that a new bypass - effectively bypassing the M5 bypass - is to be built through playing fields between the town and the motorway. Like most Devon market towns, Cullompton's population is increasing rapidly because of the sprawl of new housing estates on surrounding greenfield land.

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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby mjr » 7 May 2019, 12:02pm

ChrisButch wrote:Topical example close to me is Cullompton. Before the M5 was built the A38 ran through the town centre, and was the last obstacle driving south before the notorious Exeter bypass. But now the town centre traffic has become so heavy that a new bypass - effectively bypassing the M5 bypass - is to be built through playing fields between the town and the motorway.

Will this one be a true bypass? Or another relief road while the shorter straighter through route remains open, repeating the 1960s mistake and attempting again to build a way out of congestion?
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby pwa » 7 May 2019, 12:46pm

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote: [...] But through traffic just keeps to the bypass. No reason not to.

Reasons may include sat navs rerouting onto the old route due to congestion on the "bypass" from a collision or - as happens in King's Lynn - a botched junction rebuild that doesn't allow one frequently-dominant flow through well. Maybe Llantwit Major with its B road bypass doesn't get enough traffic to see that problem as often as a town or city where 5 A roads converge, but it looks like the basic design flaw is present.

The crucial thing is that for through traffic (e,g heading from Bridgend to Cardiff Airport) it is much faster and easier to stick to the bypass. Coming off the wide, modern bypass puts you on speedbumped medieval streets with a longer journey time and more faff.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4093789 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Medieval streets and speedbumps make a great traffic calming combo.

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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby ChrisButch » 7 May 2019, 1:39pm

mjr - probably the latter, although it's too early to know what restrictions, if any, will be placed on the old main street.

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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby Vorpal » 7 May 2019, 2:18pm

It's not just sat navs, but also planning.

I have normally requested traffic calming, reduced speed limits and/or reduced traffic permeability on the 'old' road when a new road/bypass is built.

A typical response, at least in Essex, is that the old route remains 'strategically important', that it may be needed as an alternative in case of closures, or that it is still 'in use by commuters'. Of course none of those is actually a reason not to make the environment more friendly for vulnerable users, but that is how they have responded.

I have sometimes used the old A130 (Southend/Main Road) as an example. Although the improvement there were made gradually to reduce the number and severity of RTCs, the outcome was a much improved environment for vulnerable users, at least at Howe Green and Rettendon.

Here and here they added traffic calming, and reduced the speed limits in several areas.
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby mjr » 7 May 2019, 2:21pm

pwa wrote:The crucial thing is that for through traffic (e,g heading from Bridgend to Cardiff Airport) it is much faster and easier to stick to the bypass. Coming off the wide, modern bypass puts you on speedbumped medieval streets with a longer journey time and more faff.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4093789 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Medieval streets and speedbumps make a great traffic calming combo.

Only until the "bypass" relief road congests enough to make the through route quicker - and if faff deterred drivers, there'd be a lot less motoring going on! Those streets don't look bad for smaller cars, which I guess is slightly better than most places around here, where they seem to put speed bumps only on the wider streets for reasons I don't understand.
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby Bmblbzzz » 7 May 2019, 2:42pm

It often strikes me that "if faff deterred drivers" there'd be a lot less parking going on!

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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby Vorpal » 7 May 2019, 2:58pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:It often strikes me that "if faff deterred drivers" there'd be a lot less parking going on!

IMO, faff does deter drivers, it's just that there isn't nearly enough of it most places.
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby thirdcrank » 7 May 2019, 3:11pm

As I keep hammering on, the enforcement of traffic management should be more in the hands of highway authorities. If they want to slow traffic or control certain manoeuvres or traffic movements, then they should be able to ensure enforcement without depending on the discretion (whim) of the police. This is particularly so since the police have not had the resources to prioritise traffic enforcement.

This wouldn't be a solution to problem which inspired the thread, but it would improve traffic management without all the humps and bumps.

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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby Bmblbzzz » 7 May 2019, 6:03pm

National Traffic Police? Would still depend on funding though, and ultimately central funding even if channelled through HAs.

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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby brynpoeth » 7 May 2019, 7:52pm

Scotland has a unitary police force, is there a consistent high standard of traffic law enforcement throughout?
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 8 May 2019, 8:47am

To a large extent it's unitary in name only. Distribution of specialist assets across the divisions isn't even, and each division is run differently, depending on how close the divisional commander is to retirement/what evidence they're trying to gather for their next promotion board.
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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby thirdcrank » 8 May 2019, 10:14am

I'm not suggesting more police for this. On the contrary, what I am suggesting is that for what I've referred to as traffic management, then the highway authority should be able - and expected - to undertake enforcement. With the availability of automatic enforcement with camera etc., it's absurd that the local police force should have the yea or nay. This is even more so since for many of these offences it's largely technology or nothing. There are all sorts of things involved here, such as senior police officers not liking to be associated with "cash cows" and fewer having any background in traffic enforcement. Local authorities seem to have no qualms about being accused of raising money through these means.

FWIW, this is already developing, but very slowly. It needs speeding up.

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Re: BINO: Bypasses In Name Only

Postby Bmblbzzz » 8 May 2019, 11:06am

I don't think I agree that local authorities don't mind being accused of using traffic enforcement technology to raise money. They actually seem quite sensitive to accusations of "war on the motorist" and milking the innocent driver, etc. But it's a useful tool for them because it functions both as revenue stream and enforcement of things like parking policy. Which brings us to the obvious question of finance; it's not cheap tech and many local authorities don't have sufficient income to cover their statutory duties. So it would require central funding as well as moving responsibility for prosecution to LAs.