Jokes about murder.

Mike Sales
Posts: 2533
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Jokes about murder.

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Jun 2019, 10:01am

I see that the police are investigating Jo Brand's line about throwing battery acid not milkshakes at politicians.
Matthew Parris claimed likewise to be joking about stringing wires across the road to garotte cyclists.
Is there a difference? I will watch the results of the investigation with interest.

pwa
Posts: 9616
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby pwa » 14 Jun 2019, 10:11am

I'd say both were unwise and in poor taste. Both MP and JB are usually people who take a rational, non-violent approach to things, so I'm a bit disappointed in both of them. I expect JB in particular will be wishing she could reel that one back in and do a bit of editing. Joking about violence is difficult to do well. To embed in the joke the idea that the teller disapproves of the violence requires careful crafting, so trying to do that sort of joke off-the-cuff is dangerous.

kwackers
Posts: 13098
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby kwackers » 14 Jun 2019, 10:25am

I heard the actual broadcast, it was fairly obvious it was a joke.
She's a comedian, the program is a comedy and the way she said it meant nothing else.

Was it in poor taste? Probably but so is a lot of comedy.

Is Mathew Paris a comedian? What was the context?

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jun 2019, 10:29am

What's wrong with lighthearted bantz?

Both the Sniveller and JB could answer that question, showing their working out on the answer paper. Humbug.


=========================================================================
The Sniveller was writing in the Times, playing to the gallery with a nasty piece about cyclists, suggesting that barbed-wire stretched across their routes would be a good thing. ie, in print, not off-the-cuff. Faced with the uproar, he apologised. Shortly after the @@@@@@ @@@@@@ (only joking :wink: ) who was the readers' editor(or whatever they call it in that rag bleated - and don't ask me how a cow can bleat - that's just bantz - that the self-righteous cycling lobby were all feigning indignation and what a jolly good chap he was. Sometime later, there was a stretched barbed-wire incident. More recently, I've seen something on the telly where he was snivelling about being the target of nasty hatred from cyclists.
Last edited by thirdcrank on 14 Jun 2019, 10:40am, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Sales
Posts: 2533
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Jun 2019, 10:33am

kwackers wrote:Is Mathew Paris a comedian? What was the context?


He wrote about cyclists more than once in his Times column.
Judge for yourself whether it was in a humorous context, or meant as a joke.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/cyclists-attack-parris-over-decapitation-joke

http://ipayroadtax.com/fairies/matthew-parris-cyclists-pay-no-road-tax/

pwa
Posts: 9616
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby pwa » 14 Jun 2019, 10:38am

At a time when we are all concerned that politicians cannot walk the streets and meet the people without risk, JB's joke was a bit naff to say the least. It implied, jokingly, that throwing battery acid at Farage might be okay. Not seriously. But JB believes in equality between the sexes, so would she have been as flippant about chucking battery acid at a female politician? Or a politician she approves of? Having seen the results of acid attacks I would find it difficult to laugh at any joke with that concept in it. I forgive her because I don't think she is a nasty person and I think she just let out an ill-considered remark without the necessary self-editing.

kwackers
Posts: 13098
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby kwackers » 14 Jun 2019, 10:40am

Mike Sales wrote:He wrote about cyclists more than once in his Times column.
Judge for yourself whether it was in a humorous context, or meant as a joke.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/cyclists-attack-parris-over-decapitation-joke

http://ipayroadtax.com/fairies/matthew-parris-cyclists-pay-no-road-tax/

He probably did less damage than Johnson did with the 'jokes' in his column. ;)

Paris's 'joke' falls somewhat more flat than Brand's, she very obviously set it up for the punchline, his is more of a statement.
I'm always wary of a "joke" that's delivered as a statement without any sort of setup...

Mike Sales
Posts: 2533
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Jun 2019, 10:45am

pwa wrote: Having seen the results of acid attacks I would find it difficult to laugh at any joke with that concept in it.


Cyclists have been victims of wire traps.

Did the police look into Parris's joke"?

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5231
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby Tangled Metal » 14 Jun 2019, 11:08am

I heard that one of Jo Brand's jokes was as follows:

"The way to a man's heart is through his hankie pocket with a knife!"

I'm sure I've heard jokes about violence from JB in the past too. She's not adverse to risky jokes. It's part of her style.

pwa
Posts: 9616
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby pwa » 14 Jun 2019, 11:10am

Mike Sales wrote:
pwa wrote: Having seen the results of acid attacks I would find it difficult to laugh at any joke with that concept in it.


Cyclists have been victims of wire traps.

Did the police look into Parris's joke"?

No idea, but I don't find that joke any funnier. For me to laugh enthusiastically at a joke with the concept of violence in it, the joke has to be an attack on violence and those who perpetrate it.

hemo
Posts: 361
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby hemo » 14 Jun 2019, 11:28am

Problem is some loony tune will likely act on such stupid remarks whether in jest or not, someone will look up to these as a role model :shock: .

mattheus
Posts: 478
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby mattheus » 14 Jun 2019, 12:35pm

pwa wrote:I'd say both were unwise and in poor taste. Both MP and JB are usually people who take a rational, non-violent approach to things, so I'm a bit disappointed in both of them.

Agreed.

in general you shouldn't try direct comparisons of these things - it's like comparing prison sentences for two offenders. like a good judge, we should judge each case on it's merits.

But I have to say I'm still angry with Parris about that garrotting article! It was so deliberate. "playing to the gallery" as someone posted here is dead right. Although the PCC got hundreds of complaints, I have yet to find that he received any punishment.

I don't ever think it's right to use "only joking" as a defence for bullying. Where is the actual joke? I don't have to actually laugh to see a joke - I just want to see that it was INTENDED as funny. There are plenty of bad jokes out there, that's fine; but being spiteful (or inciting violence) isn't a joke in itself just because you later claim to be "only joking".


Meanwhile, on Ms Brand:
Tangled Metal wrote:I heard that one of Jo Brand's jokes was as follows:

"The way to a man's heart is through his hankie pocket with a knife!"

I'm sure I've heard jokes about violence from JB in the past too. She's not adverse to risky jokes. It's part of her style.


I've been thinking about why I feel Jo Brand's comments are (in the main) on the "right side"; she started off doing lots of jokes like the above, about men. We have to bear in mind the context - feminism was just getting off the ground. Violence to women (by men) was not getting the treatment it deserved, and Jo was frequently the butt of nasty invenctive from men. So I'd say she had the right to make those sort of jokes.

I can't remember the exact wording of her Farrage joke, so I'll delay comment.

softlips
Posts: 457
Joined: 12 Dec 2016, 8:51pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby softlips » 14 Jun 2019, 3:51pm

kwackers wrote:She's a comedian,


:shock: :?

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jun 2019, 4:01pm

JB's attempt at humour is also an own goal in that it allows Farage to present himself as a victim. He milked the milkshake incident enough.

kwackers
Posts: 13098
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Jokes about murder.

Postby kwackers » 14 Jun 2019, 4:10pm

softlips wrote:
kwackers wrote:She's a comedian,


:shock: :?

I'm sure there's meaning there but I'm not getting it...
She's not a comedian? You don't like her style of humour?

She should have kept the joke back for her stage show. Now she's a joke down because everyone has heard that one...