RickH wrote:Someone in a Facebook group I'm in shared this TV listing. To my reading it doesn't sound like it is a hatchet job on cyclists. Like reohn2 I think I'll reserve judgement until I know what they are actually saying.
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Who wrote that, though? The Channel 5 EPG currently says only "New: Cyclists: Scourge Of The... Tue, 09.07.2019 / 21:15 - 22:15 ( 60 min ) Description ...Streets? Documentary exploring the growing tension between two- and four-wheel drivers on Britain's roads.[S]"
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
The utility cyclist wrote:You haven't read this absolute bilge, short on facts and hefty in anecdote and the authors own bias and discrimination ... by the bucket load? https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ety-review. When it came to it, the author had no other option but to put the facts in, did so in a tiny footnote which proved without a shadow of a doubt that people on cycles are not the problem, not even when comparing to pedestrians.
Having now read the "bilge" you refer to,thanks for the link,I can only say I disagree.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
RickH wrote:Someone in a Facebook group I'm in shared this TV listing. To my reading it doesn't sound like it is a hatchet job on cyclists. Like reohn2 I think I'll reserve judgement until I know what they are actually saying.
FB_IMG_1562338649397.jpg
Who wrote that, though? The Channel 5 EPG currently says only "New: Cyclists: Scourge Of The... Tue, 09.07.2019 / 21:15 - 22:15 ( 60 min ) Description ...Streets? Documentary exploring the growing tension between two- and four-wheel drivers on Britain's roads.[S]"
I've asked the person who posted it where it came from & will report back if I find out.
I suspect it is text direct from Channel 5, rather than made up independently by a copy writer, but that others have edited it down either for space reasons or simply to be provocative.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
RickH wrote:I've asked the person who posted it where it came from & will report back if I find out.
Thank you!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Sadly, the English can be nasty at times. Given that cyclists are the only minority group not protected by law we are now the only group that it is still legally allowed to attack, not just verbally but often physically as well. I am just back from a week in Dresden where pedestrians, cyclists, buses, trams and motor vehicles happily share the same spaces. Other German and French cities are the same. Given the damage motorists cause in death and injury to everyone,including themselves, we have a long way to go in the UK to a level of acceptance of climate crisis by the general public that can force our politicians to act in any meaningful way. Compared to the Greens massive support in Germany we have a long ,long way to go.
pga wrote:Sadly, the English can be nasty at times. Given that cyclists are the only minority group not protected by law we are now the only group that it is still legally allowed to attack, not just verbally but often physically as well. I am just back from a week in Dresden where pedestrians, cyclists, buses, trams and motor vehicles happily share the same spaces. Other German and French cities are the same. Given the damage motorists cause in death and injury to everyone,including themselves, we have a long way to go in the UK to a level of acceptance of climate crisis by the general public that can force our politicians to act in any meaningful way. Compared to the Greens massive support in Germany we have a long ,long way to go.
Only minority group not protected by law! What in earth does that mean?
Oldjohnw wrote:Only minority group not protected by law! What in earth does that mean?
Would any of these phrases be considered as potential hate crimes if used as headlines?
If women don't want to be 'dehumanised' they could start by behaving like decent human beings
The number of blacks we caught breaking the law in one hour in Hull city centre
Muslims: Scourge of the streets
I have changed only one word in each of these headlines or titles which have appeared in our media in relatively recent times to provide an example of how people who use bikes are treated very differently from a variety of minority groups which are protected by law. I fully appreciate that the results are likely to be viewed as highly offensive, and hope that readers will understand why. It won’t be hard to work out which word I changed.
pga wrote:Sadly, the English can be nasty at times. Given that cyclists are the only minority group not protected by law we are now the only group that it is still legally allowed to attack, not just verbally but often physically as well. I am just back from a week in Dresden where pedestrians, cyclists, buses, trams and motor vehicles happily share the same spaces. Other German and French cities are the same. Given the damage motorists cause in death and injury to everyone,including themselves, we have a long way to go in the UK to a level of acceptance of climate crisis by the general public that can force our politicians to act in any meaningful way. Compared to the Greens massive support in Germany we have a long ,long way to go.
+1.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Oldjohnw wrote:Only minority group not protected by law! What in earth does that mean?
Would any of these phrases be considered as potential hate crimes if used as headlines?
If women don't want to be 'dehumanised' they could start by behaving like decent human beings
The number of blacks we caught breaking the law in one hour in Hull city centre
Muslims: Scourge of the streets
I have changed only one word in each of these headlines or titles which have appeared in our media in relatively recent times to provide an example of how people who use bikes are treated very differently from a variety of minority groups which are protected by law. I fully appreciate that the results are likely to be viewed as highly offensive, and hope that readers will understand why. It won’t be hard to work out which word I changed.
It's worth noting that the existence of various anti-hatred laws doesn't actually prevent the hatred or it's manifestation in acts of persecution well beyond the verbal.
The current problem is that our Blighty morality has not caught up with the law - except for those of us who are lily-livered liberal snowflakes, that is. The great hordes of rabid xenophobes and pariah-persecutors are loath to give up their Daily Hate Mail excitements of yet another group of "others" to badger, bait and eventually murder in some horrific fashion.
Is it something to do with speaking English? Perhaps the language memes are somehow inducing these poor mental states? In the USA, Britain and Australia, othering and their subsequent persecution seems to be the current norm. As another poster notes, there's far more tolerance for others in greater Europe, for example.
Perhaps it's the dominance of neoliberalism and it's degrading of many people's everyday lives?
Perhaps it's the dominance of Murdoch media?
Do offer your own theories, everyone.
Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Cugel wrote:Is it something to do with speaking English? Perhaps the language memes are somehow inducing these poor mental states? In the USA, Britain and Australia, othering and their subsequent persecution seems to be the current norm. As another poster notes, there's far more tolerance for others in greater Europe, for example.
Perhaps it's the dominance of neoliberalism and it's degrading of many people's everyday lives?
Perhaps it's the dominance of Murdoch media?
Do offer your own theories, everyone.
Cugel
The coincidence that the Anglo-Saxon countries are the ones where helmet compulsion and promotion are strongest has long been noticeable. I have conjectured that this is to do with our political cultures. We share cultures, and language is part of culture, as is neoliberalism.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
The problem is one of a lack of respect,either of law and more importantly respect for other people,which is sadly lacking in modern day UK. When teenagers are going around stabbing and killing each other it's a sad symptom that societies structure is breaking down. At the other end of the scale it's the same in a world acutely aware of the damage to the environment driving a car less than a mile can have,yet people continually do it. Not only that they feel wholly justified in doing it whilst at the same time berating cyclists for just being on the same roads are themselves.
The country is downside up,or should that be on it's social,environmental,and economical arris
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Only approximately around 65,000ish members in 2019, so in some ways we're hardly a majority group....
My observation is that there is a breed of criminal thug who drives as if he owns the road (but avoids paying tax when he can), steals when there's no consequences, litters because he knows no one will dare to stop him and has negative attitudes to women, different races, disabilities, classical music, socialists, tree huggers and anyone else who isn't "like" him. This creature of the sewers unfortunately isn't unique. And worse, there are many who are on the same sliding scale of anti-social attitudinal behavior.
Another observation is that most of us can fall into trenches that limit our views and tolerance of differences (see above) We can all too quickly condemn the other for not seeing things from our point of view.... Agreed that there is a real problem with people who escalate from simply not agreeing with someone else, to threatening or using violence to force their view on others.
Government would find it difficult without a lot of backpedaling to tax pedal cyclists at any rate that actually covered the cost, let alone made a useful profit for say investing in infrastructure etc. Having admitted the need to reduce carbon emissions, to stop pollution, to increase fitness of the people, and to change transport choices away from personal cars.
There would need to be a sea change with cyclists towards personal security. Too many still leave cycles poorly secured against theft, this would cause immense problems if cycles were issued with number plates. Enough motorists have suffered the hassle of fines after having number plates cloned. Forget number plates for cyclists themselves....
We all agree that some cyclists, both hoodie yobs and Lycra yobs, cause immense aggro to other road users. Everything from hurtling down footpaths with pedestrians been scattered, to abusing motorists after seriously bad cycling. And we know that some car drivers are just as bad. I confess to have a generally low opinion of delivery van drivers like DPD and UPS, as well as most private hire taxi drivers. Then there are motorcyclists who ignore that the ability to accelerate from 0 to 35 in under 2 seconds, is a capability, not a right on a road shared with slower vehicles and pedestrians.
So why? I lay the ultimate blame on the government. A total lack of moral compass, and an hidden agenda to turn the country into a battle field so us plebs eventually wipe each other out. We might be talking about cars picking on cyclists on this board, but SUVs pick on smaller cars too. Freedom of speech has proved to be a licence to abuse those you don't agree with. It's so difficult for the courts to discern between hate propaganda and freedom of speech.
I think all we can do is to make sure our own behavior is beyond reproach at all times. Never retaliate unless in genuine self defence. Gather evidence, don't finger, punch, spit or kick. Engage calmly those who express negative views, but leave it if they are closed to reasoned argument. If you're going to undertake queuing traffic at the lights, make sure you're fit enough to sprint away on amber/green and not unreasonably hold the cars up. Yes I know they overtook you before the lights, but did you know that dogs have a short memory. If you chastise a dog after it returns to you, for running away, the dog thinks you're telling them off for returning. Confusing eh?
landsurfer wrote:We are often our own worst enemies, most often ! ..
Don't you mean: some cyclists (also drivers/pedestrian) are idiots?
By saying "we" you are including me in a group to which I don't belong.
Did i use the word idiots ? Do you plan to rely on the moderators to delete any posts that disagree with or challenge you ? ....
We use moderators because some people will not take responsibility for what they say, despite the fact it's written in every post they write, so when what you write is offensive, inflammatory and baseless in fact, they are there to keep some civility, maybe you should take heed of your own words? “I’m responsible only for what I say"
