Hatred against Cyclists

User avatar
RickH
Posts: 4434
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby RickH » 10 Jul 2019, 11:45am

Excellent short video on twitter in response from Chris Boardman (you don't have to sign up or login to view it, but the sound may be auto muted).

https://mobile.twitter.com/BritishCycli ... 57632?s=04

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 9350
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby horizon » 10 Jul 2019, 1:07pm

Pete Owens wrote:I didn't think it was anything like as bad as folk are making out.


+ 1 . It was just a bad programme overall as it really had no conclusion; the various bits were actually quite interesting.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 8865
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby 661-Pete » 10 Jul 2019, 5:04pm

Well - I find myself agreeing with most of the above. I just watched the whole programme in catchup (after searching around for C5's catchup - never used it before - it's http://www.my5.tv if anyone needs to know...) I'm sure I wasn't the only one left with steam coming from my ears before the programme was over! :evil:

Take any category of people: cyclists for instance: it's easy for a skilled journo (like the ones they no doubt employ at C5) working full-time, to pick out the worst in the bunch, the ones that suit his particular agenda - whilst leaving all the majority, the sensible and considerate cyclists out there, on the cutting room floor. Easy indeed!

At least, that was the impression I got up to about 30 minutes into the programme. Slanging off after slanging off of the cyclist without a break (except for the adverts - mostly car adverts, I noticed). Then we got to the cycling vigilante - one Dave Sherry (? not a name to me - is he on any of the forums?). Whilst I agree they do a useful piece of work, I have mixed feelings about this activity, in this epoch of populism, insularity and prejudice. There is too much hate in these isles of ours already. Especially when he was talking about 'quotas'. Anyway, not a position I'd wish to take myself - although I do sometimes mount a camera, and have sent one or two pieces of footage to the BiB....

Then we got to the cycling cop. With partner on a motorbike to pull in the errant drivers. That at least was positive from the cyclist's point of view, but it came too late and only served to reinforce the feeling of danger to cyclists.

I feel safe, most of the time, when cycling - except when I feel threatened, and that doesn't happen very often. I have to admit I stay clear of the big cities. Rural rides are to me the real pleasure of cycling. That idiot in the car (with a gun?) ranting about cyclists going up Boxhill - what was he doing in his car going up Boxhill? I know that road (though I've never cycled on it) - it's very narrow and any motorist using it will have to expect to fall in behind slower road users. He'll get there in the end! There are many similar roads in Sussex, and when driving I know full well when I may have to slow to a crawl. Doesn't faze me - I don't use those roads if I'm in a hurry.

2/10 to C5 for fairness, I think. And the '2' only because of the cycling cop.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

reohn2
Posts: 35254
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 10 Jul 2019, 5:46pm

Pete Owens wrote:I didn't think it was anything like as bad as folk are making out.

Motorists will have been cringing at the people put up supposedly to represent them. All of them seemed to be the sort of obsessives that you would avoid at a social gathering.

There was the tiresome drone from Surrey who whined on-and-on-and-on about cyclists going to fast, cyclists going too slow, cyclists overtaking on the right, cyclists overtaking on the left... Then cut to interviews with happy normal looking people of different genders clearly enjoying a ride out in the countryside. Could you imagine any of them defecating in your front garden? And the final nail in is credibility was shot through when he passed through the barrier closing the road he had been filmed driving along!

There were the angry taxi drivers whose gripe appears to be with cycle lanes rather than cyclists (a distinction that seems to be lost on some here). They couldn't seem to make out whether their problem was too many or too few cyclists. And when your complaints include the fact that cyclists are not subject to speed limits you have clearly lost it.

There was the self-publicising solicitor. The hypocrisy of someone who make a living getting people off traffic offences on technicalities calling for stricter enforcement is not going to convince anyone. His sole aim in getting involved in these things is to generate name recognition (so make sure to never mention his name).

One sign of progress is they now all feel the need to qualify their remarks by claiming to be in favour of cycling; in the same way you know what to expect when someone starts a sentence "I'm not a racist, but ... ". They know that overt cycle-hating is no longer socially acceptable.

On the other side we had the authoritative voice of the West Midlands Police - and the fact that they are targeting close-passing motorists cannot be exaggerated enough. They might not have had the same amount of air time - but that time was much more effective.

Even the camera wielding cyclist was not as bad as I had worried about. He came across as good humoured, if a bit overenthusiastic, and some of his videos were pretty shocking - the sort even the most committed motorist would think need to be dealt with. We could have done without the trivial van parking incident.

The only one on the anti-cycling side to come out well was the chap who had been hit by the pavement cyclist. He seemed remarkably composed, even in the immediate aftermath.

I agree with everything in this post,but,and there always is one with programs such as this,is that the loonies driving around that give me a fright to a more or lesser degree whenever I ride,won't see it like that at all IMO,they will agree with the prejudiced motorists in the program,because they themselves are similarly prejudiced.
That's the problem.
Such people know little of cycling because they don't, can't or won't cycle they're sort who'll park anywhere to save themselves a 10metre walk and treat other road users with contempt and disdain,especially cyclists.
The program was an opportunity lost in favour of sensationalism and which IMO did little to nothing for promoting cycling in the eyes of such people and many others on the fence.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
Posts: 35254
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 10 Jul 2019, 5:56pm

RickH wrote:Excellent short video on twitter in response from Chris Boardman (you don't have to sign up or login to view it, but the sound may be auto muted).

https://mobile.twitter.com/BritishCycli ... 57632?s=04

Just watch it,Chris Boardman once again absolutely spot on!
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 8865
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby 661-Pete » 12 Jul 2019, 5:15pm

What peeves me more than anything, was that I had to turn off Adblock in order to watch this wretched programme in catch-up. Ah well - it'll be a very long time before I next watch any more of C5's gutter-press effluent....

I notice that the latest Cycleclips mailshot emphatically gives C5 the finger. And others in the cycling community have likewise expressed disgust. How else can we make our feelings known? I'm not on T****er or any of that stuff...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

fullupandslowingdown
Posts: 118
Joined: 11 Oct 2007, 5:47pm

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 22 Jul 2019, 7:14pm

skyhawk wrote:Too many posts to read here but why do people believe that cyclists are perfect, I have as we have all seen them running red lights, jumping pavements to avoid lights, cycling on pavements SOD the pedestrians, running down the inside blind spots on lorries/busses

Come on


I have words (shouting matches with much posturing.......) on occasion with brain dead morons on pedal cycles, who attempt to bully me as a pedestrian out of the way on a narrow footpath. I wish I could say it was only non "real cyclists" but unfortunately some of our own behave badly.
Its a society problem, individuals who behave without regard to others no matter what they are doing. Walking a dog - not picking up after it. Playing music- loudly late at night. Having a barbecue- nextdoor to someone who put their washing out earlier. Smoking tobacco- stood in a common egress. Etc, etc, etc.

reohn2
Posts: 35254
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jul 2019, 7:35pm

fullupandslowingdown wrote:
Its a society problem, individuals who behave without regard to others no matter what they are doing. Walking a dog - not picking up after it. Playing music- loudly late at night. Having a barbecue- nextdoor to someone who put their washing out earlier. Smoking tobacco- stood in a common egress. Etc, etc, etc.

It's a downright lack of respect by some for the people and environment around them that gets me.
IMO it stems from a belief that they aren't part of the whole but are themselves the whole of everything.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2194
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby Cugel » 22 Jul 2019, 10:46pm

reohn2 wrote:
fullupandslowingdown wrote:
Its a society problem, individuals who behave without regard to others no matter what they are doing. Walking a dog - not picking up after it. Playing music- loudly late at night. Having a barbecue- nextdoor to someone who put their washing out earlier. Smoking tobacco- stood in a common egress. Etc, etc, etc.

It's a downright lack of respect by some for the people and environment around them that gets me.
IMO it stems from a belief that they aren't part of the whole but are themselves the whole of everything.


Individualism - a Yank cult of the extremely harmful variety. The acolytes are everywhere, even in the bluddy Blighty government! I blame that Ayn Rand. And Davy Crockett, King of The Wild Frontier where murderin' "the savages" and all the wildlife was regarded as a Very Good Thing. Ole Davy had a favourite aphorism:

"Always be sure you are right, then go ahead".

What wisdom, eh? I believe that Trump has the same attitood. He makes sure he's always right (in every sense of that mental state) by doing away with facts in favour of his own tweets.

But I digress.

I haven't been hated on the bike for months now. This is because The West Welsh are nice, unlike a sizeable proportion of Lancastrians and an even bigger proportion of Mankies, Brums and Cockerneys!

I feel better for that. 'Scuse my stereotyping. :-)

Cugel

reohn2
Posts: 35254
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jul 2019, 10:49pm

Cugel wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
fullupandslowingdown wrote:
Its a society problem, individuals who behave without regard to others no matter what they are doing. Walking a dog - not picking up after it. Playing music- loudly late at night. Having a barbecue- nextdoor to someone who put their washing out earlier. Smoking tobacco- stood in a common egress. Etc, etc, etc.

It's a downright lack of respect by some for the people and environment around them that gets me.
IMO it stems from a belief that they aren't part of the whole but are themselves the whole of everything.


Individualism - a Yank cult of the extremely harmful variety. The acolytes are everywhere, even in the bluddy Blighty government! I blame that Ayn Rand. And Davy Crockett, King of The Wild Frontier where murderin' "the savages" and all the wildlife was regarded as a Very Good Thing. Ole Davy had a favourite aphorism:

"Always be sure you are right, then go ahead".

What wisdom, eh? I believe that Trump has the same attitood. He makes sure he's always right (in every sense of that mental state) by doing away with facts in favour of his own tweets.

But I digress.

I haven't been hated on the bike for months now. This is because The West Welsh are nice, unlike a sizeable proportion of Lancastrians and an even bigger proportion of Mankies, Brums and Cockerneys!

I feel better for that. 'Scuse my stereotyping. :-)

Cugel

You read my mind,and at a distance too,I'm getting worried :shock: .
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 9350
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby horizon » 23 Jul 2019, 1:35am

skyhawk wrote:Too many posts to read here but why do people believe that cyclists are perfect, I have as we have all seen them running red lights, jumping pavements to avoid lights, cycling on pavements SOD the pedestrians, running down the inside blind spots on lorries/busses

Come on


Just a passing thought here: the programme was about cyclists. But I'm not interested in cyclists - I'm interested in cycling. The big idea is that cycling can improve our health, our cities, our mental state. Channel Five has reduced this amazing idea to a programme about individuals: who they are, what they do, whether they are right or wrong, whether they obey the law or whether they are nicer or more aggressive than people who drive cars. This personalisation of an idea is a journalistic technique to make it easier for people to identify emotionally with the story: ideas and concepts can be hard to grasp - us and them is easy. The downside is that the idea gets lost. The fact that cyclists jump red lights (for example) is pretty irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

reohn2
Posts: 35254
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jul 2019, 9:18am

horizon wrote:
skyhawk wrote:Too many posts to read here but why do people believe that cyclists are perfect, I have as we have all seen them running red lights, jumping pavements to avoid lights, cycling on pavements SOD the pedestrians, running down the inside blind spots on lorries/busses

Come on


Just a passing thought here: the programme was about cyclists. But I'm not interested in cyclists - I'm interested in cycling. The big idea is that cycling can improve our health, our cities, our mental state. Channel Five has reduced this amazing idea to a programme about individuals: who they are, what they do, whether they are right or wrong, whether they obey the law or whether they are nicer or more aggressive than people who drive cars. This personalisation of an idea is a journalistic technique to make it easier for people to identify emotionally with the story: ideas and concepts can be hard to grasp - us and them is easy. The downside is that the idea gets lost. The fact that cyclists jump red lights (for example) is pretty irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.

Wisdom
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 8865
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby 661-Pete » 23 Jul 2019, 9:29am

skyhawk wrote:Too many posts to read here but why do people believe that cyclists are perfect, I have as we have all seen them running red lights, jumping pavements to avoid lights, cycling on pavements SOD the pedestrians, running down the inside blind spots on lorries/busses

Come on
Has anyone actually claimed on this thread that "cyclists are perfect"? Come on! [perhaps you might wish to read through the 'too many' posts that you skipped?]

What we are complaining about, is not the denigrating of those cyclists who deserve to be denigrated - the obvious wrongdoers in our midst. No: what we are (well, I am, at least) complaining about is that this sort of programme gives a slanted, distorted impression of the life that cyclists have to lead. That every single one of them - to a man or woman - is constantly at war with motorists and other road users - and that insults directed at cyclists in general are the norm and to be encouraged (what were the cyclists on Box Hill doing wrong, for heaven's sake??). Trouble is, verbal abuse can so easily degenerate into physical abuse - and a motor vehicle is a formidable weapon! This programme was contrived to stir up anger and hatred.

That's why we complain about this programme!

Furthermore, the strong impression was given, that every cyclist is dicing with death the moment he/she gets in the saddle. Of course cycling has an element of danger - but the danger is no greater than that connected with many other activities - like going downstairs for instance, or making a cup of tea. This programme was contrived to discourage would-be cyclists from taking it up.

That's why we complain about this programme!

Enough said?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

kwackers
Posts: 13295
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby kwackers » 23 Jul 2019, 9:35am

I watched the program not so long ago, don't think it was any biggie.
Overall I thought motorists got just as much flack - although I would have liked to see more balanced answers to some of the criticism of cyclists.
And of course it always amuses me when I see a taxi driver criticise *anyone's* driving.

What I did think was good was the cycling policeman, I reckon that probably frightened a lot of motorists for whom it never occurred that they could get nobbled for passing a cyclist too close.

skyhawk
Posts: 280
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Hatred against Cyclists

Postby skyhawk » 24 Jul 2019, 10:23am

661-Pete wrote:
skyhawk wrote:Too many posts to read here but why do people believe that cyclists are perfect, I have as we have all seen them running red lights, jumping pavements to avoid lights, cycling on pavements SOD the pedestrians, running down the inside blind spots on lorries/busses

Come on
Has anyone actually claimed on this thread that "cyclists are perfect"? Come on! [perhaps you might wish to read through the 'too many' posts that you skipped?]

?


If you BOTHER to read my signature you would understand WHY I don't read LONG posts, which is why I clearly stated that there were too many to read, autism in me means I can not concentrate on reading a lot, live with the explanation
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more