What can we learn from LSBTIQ* campaigns?

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 9555
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Jul 2019, 6:46am

However, it also shows that when you have too many different agendas and aims within one community then there will be internal strife and division

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5923
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jul 2019, 8:21am

brynpoeth wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Critical mass events where cyclists meet to raise awareness of their issues. Is that not a little bit pride march in style?

There is a critical mass event in my small town, went to watch once but I am too scared to join in
It is just tokenism

There is a Gay Parade once a year, plus a whole week of events
A policeperson explained that she loved being on duty for the parade, everybody was friendly, there was no trouble, she had nothing to do

There was one here a few weeks ago (pride). An elderly work colleague went. Her grandson was there. A big 6 footer in heels and drag. Totally blended into the crowd! I didn't go. Roads too busy and I'm not one for crowds. The police were not bored. They just joined in!

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5923
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jul 2019, 8:22am

Whereas our critical mass was a pantheon of socialist types promoting their own causes while pretending to be critical mass.

User avatar
Wanlock Dod
Posts: 506
Joined: 28 Sep 2016, 5:48pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 9 Jul 2019, 7:01pm

Having many different aims and agendas within a group, or collection of groups, need not prevent them from identifying a common issue and working together to achieve it. A critical mass is more likely to be achieved when more people get together.

The current situation which generates conflict between cyclists and pedestrians only seems to be beneficial to those trying to promote motoring, but cyclists and pedestrians probably have much more in common than might be suggested by the constant bickering about how dangerous cyclists are to pedestrians.

rmurphy195
Posts: 1436
Joined: 20 May 2011, 11:23am
Location: South Birmingham

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby rmurphy195 » 9 Jul 2019, 9:06pm

landsurfer wrote:"What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?"

What can we learn ? How minorities can force their political agenda on the majority using fear and threats as a weapon.
How a tiny, unrepresentative percent of the population, less than 1% can use the law to threaten the other 99% and be supported by those who fear standing up for the majority.
Rotherham Syndrome .. all over again ...

What can we learn ? ..... to find our own way ... this is one bandwagon we should be happy we have missed ....


+1

I'm not gay, feel I need a Hetero Pride march :)

We can learn from car advertising - car adverts are not about the cars any more (haven't been for a long time), but about smiley lifestyles, getting about, being trendy (and taking out loans!) Maybe if the bike industry could afford advertising they could do the same!
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5923
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jul 2019, 11:35pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:Having many different aims and agendas within a group, or collection of groups, need not prevent them from identifying a common issue and working together to achieve it. A critical mass is more likely to be achieved when more people get together.

Definitely agree with you there. I just don't see how that happened when the local critical mass had people campaigning for different issues. That's the local critical mass group for you, not about a common cause. Less about cycling critical mass organisation. It's more about various socialist and green party politics. I can't support that and it leaves me without a local cycling critical mass group to support.

atoz
Posts: 352
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 4:50pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby atoz » 10 Jul 2019, 10:26pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:What can we learn from successes of the gay rights lobby?

I think that one thing that we can learn from the LGBT+ movement is that by standing together with other groups with similar issues it is possible to make a much bigger impact. The whole issue here is that it is not just gay people making a stand, they have joined forces with all of the other groups that are viewed as outside of mainstream sexuality and are both stronger and more effective together.

People who ride bikes should join forces with any other groups who might share our aims, such as pedestrians, disabled people, air pollution campaigners, the liveable cities movement, people affected by road crimes, those suffering from noise pollution etc. to come together with a single and consistent message about better and safer conditions on the roads in our cities. So far I don’t see this happening to a sufficient extent to make any of the issues which these types of groups are concerned about heard above the constant din of motorised traffic and their lobbyists.


Agreed. Whatever people's views on LGBT campaigning, the fact is that is has had a great deal of success. When you compare the situation now to say, the 1980s, the differences are huge. Whereas atttitude towards cyclists are often hostile and antagonistic, for reasons which often beggar belief. I agree with joining forces with other groups who might share our aims- sounds sensible and likely to gain more support.

brynpoeth
Posts: 11422
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Jul 2019, 6:01am

Tangled Metal wrote:
Wanlock Dod wrote:Having many different aims and agendas within a group, or collection of groups, need not prevent them from identifying a common issue and working together to achieve it. A critical mass is more likely to be achieved when more people get together.

Definitely agree with you there. I just don't see how that happened when the local critical mass had people campaigning for different issues. That's the local critical mass group for you, not about a common cause. Less about cycling critical mass organisation. It's more about various socialist and green party politics. I can't support that and it leaves me without a local cycling critical mass group to support.

The youngstars* organise Fridays for Future cycle demos, I think old people may join in too, got lots of media attention for a few weeks

* Greta T is a youngstar
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2911
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 11 Jul 2019, 10:32am

landsurfer wrote:"What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?"

What can we learn ? How minorities can force their political agenda on the majority using fear and threats as a weapon.
How a tiny, unrepresentative percent of the population, less than 1% can use the law to threaten the other 99% and be supported by those who fear standing up for the majority.
Rotherham Syndrome .. all over again ...

What can we learn ? ..... to find our own way ... this is one bandwagon we should be happy we have missed ....

Less than 1%? Even leaving aside that estimates for the gay population range from 5 to 10%, that x on the end is usually ...IAQ, standing for Interested, Asexual, Questioning. I reckon that makes it 99% of the adult population. Almost everyone is either interested in sex, not interested, or has questions...

landsurfer
Posts: 5028
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby landsurfer » 11 Jul 2019, 12:32pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Less than 1%? Even leaving aside that estimates for the gay population range from 5 to 10%, that x on the end is usually ...IAQ, standing for Interested, Asexual, Questioning. I reckon that makes it 99% of the adult population. Almost everyone is either interested in sex, not interested, or has questions...


<1% the number of trans people in the UK .... Stonewall's figures ... aggressively pursuing their agenda .... in some cases to cheat in sport and to overturn Women's Rights ...
Mike Hall, Jenny Graham .. Respect.
The Road Goes On Forever.

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2911
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 11 Jul 2019, 1:00pm

Trans is only one component of the LGBT... alphabet spaghetti.

But that also shows a key difference between "Gay pride" and "Cyclist pride". Whereas the former is one in which nearly everyone has some sort of interest and participation (even deliberate celibacy is a sexually conscious act), cycling is not. Unless, perhaps, it's made about streets, spaces, transport and in fact lives in general (such as, do you really want to drop your kids off at school? wouldn't you rather they just made their own way?).

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5923
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Jul 2019, 1:36pm

I think in some cases celibacy isn't a choice! :lol:

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2911
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 12 Jul 2019, 6:25pm

Going back to the Trans component: this is very much in the news nowadays, stirring up both support and opposition (as well as bewilderment) and a lot of the opposition comes from some other sections of the LGBT... community (mostly, I think, L, at least at the moment). This shows a weakness shared with cycling campaign groups: that by splitting movements into lots of little pieces, it's easy for those opposed to such movements to get them fight each other and thus defeat themselves. We see this in cycling, not so much in road v mtb v tourers v utilitarians or even "vehicularists" v "segregators" but in language such as "POB" and "weekend warrior", a split of "cyclist" (lifestyle, leisure activity, gear and events) v "transport" (everyday clothes, riding to or for work, etc).

Mike Sales
Posts: 3523
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby Mike Sales » 12 Jul 2019, 6:34pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Going back to the Trans component: this is very much in the news nowadays, stirring up both support and opposition (as well as bewilderment) and a lot of the opposition comes from some other sections of the LGBT... community (mostly, I think, L, at least at the moment). This shows a weakness shared with cycling campaign groups: that by splitting movements into lots of little pieces, it's easy for those opposed to such movements to get them fight each other and thus defeat themselves. We see this in cycling, not so much in road v mtb v tourers v utilitarians or even "vehicularists" v "segregators" but in language such as "POB" and "weekend warrior", a split of "cyclist" (lifestyle, leisure activity, gear and events) v "transport" (everyday clothes, riding to or for work, etc).


It is not just cyclists and lgbtx who have a splittist weakness.
Protestant sects suffer from it. Methodists are Primitive or Wesleyan. There are Wee Frees and Wee Wee Frees.
Remember the Judean People's Front, the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Popular Front.
It seems to be a human weakness.

landsurfer
Posts: 5028
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: What can we learn from LGBTx campaigns?

Postby landsurfer » 12 Jul 2019, 6:41pm

Mike Sales wrote:
It is not just cyclists and lgbtx who have a splittist weakness.
Protestant sects suffer from it. Methodists are Primitive or Wesleyan. There are Wee Frees and Wee Wee Frees.
Remember the Judean People's Front, the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Popular Front.
It seems to be a human weakness.


++1 .... And ... :D
Mike Hall, Jenny Graham .. Respect.
The Road Goes On Forever.