It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

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The utility cyclist
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It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby The utility cyclist » 27 Jul 2019, 1:07pm

discuss
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019 ... the-menace

Remove motors from one lane of the nearby road so you have a 3m wide space direct to where you want to go with priority and commuters wouldn't need to use canal paths.

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gaz
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby gaz » 27 Jul 2019, 1:50pm

The utility cyclist wrote:Remove motors from one lane of the nearby road so you have a 3m wide space direct to where you want to go with priority and commuters wouldn't need to use canal paths.

That idea would work for me but my local highway authority aren't about to deliver it.

A cycle ban on the towpath? I could see the same authority going with that.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby mjr » 27 Jul 2019, 3:46pm

No. Widen the towpaths that can be widened as needed and police the bits that cannot. Blanket bans are unjust and either they're not policed and punish only the lawabiding (while the reckless ignore them), or they're policed and it takes resources away from policing real reckless towpath use.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby millimole » 27 Jul 2019, 4:00pm

I said on Twitter that this was a London-centric issue, and was taken to task, but I stand by it being a big-city problem.
I probably spend more time on towpaths than most due to my volunteering role with the Canal and River Trust (CRT) and see all sides of this.
Most of the towpath network is perfectly fine (I didn't say good) for cycling most of the time. Issues arise when the numbers of users increase above n, and / or you get any number above 1 user trying to get somewhere quickly - not restricted to cyclists, it's a jogger/runner problem too.
Towpaths and the canal system are for pootling, strolling, relaxing and cooperation.
The towpaths have been coopted as alternives to the dreadful roads in big cities for very good reason. Unfortunately the nature of commuter cycling in England tends toward the fast and uncompromising, rather than the relaxed type of cycling that towpaths demand - hence the conflict.
As much as I'd hate to see it I can see the point when CRT will bow to pressure and attempt to limit cycling on some sections of city towpaths. I say I would hate to see it, but if, if it then put pressure on local authorities to improve cycling infrastructure then it may be a pill worth swallowing.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby reohn2 » 27 Jul 2019, 4:22pm

The problem as I see it is exactly the same as a growing element motorist's bullying attitude toward cyclists,the more crowded the roads are the worse it gets.
I agree with Millimole it's yet another London centric problem due to overcrowding and poor infrastructure,society is full of selfish people willing to elbow anyone out of the way to get where they want to go :evil: .
When you're living in a zoo the animals can be quite vicious if not controlled,it's a policing issue and because the police are an impotent force in the UK today not much will happen to rectify it.
Crack down on the idiots an they'll learn it's not acceptable,until then......
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby Wanlock Dod » 27 Jul 2019, 6:25pm

Tow paths are only really popular for utility cycling because of a lack of high quality cycle routes on the nearby roads. If people riding bikes were properly catered for on the road network they probably wouldn’t have taken to riding on tow paths in large numbers for non-recreational cycling. As it is hostility on the roads means that tow paths have become important cycle routes despite their inconveniences sure as limited access points, narrowness, and sometimes indirect routes. I expect that the numbers of people cycling on them would fall if good quality provision existed for comparable routes on the road network.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby The utility cyclist » 27 Jul 2019, 11:34pm

mjr wrote:No. Widen the towpaths that can be widened as needed and police the bits that cannot. Blanket bans are unjust and either they're not policed and punish only the lawabiding (while the reckless ignore them), or they're policed and it takes resources away from policing real reckless towpath use.

The police can't/won't police the roads where the most damage is being done, so policing tow paths is firstly not going to happen in any meaningful way and whatever IS is wasteful and diverts away from where the real harm is being done and what causes people on bikes to take to tow paths in the first place.
And yet you want to continue to have shared use in places where there simply isn't enough space, continue to have conflicts because as we know full well shared use is not and never will be a solution, it's not what commuter cyclists want and it isn't what people on foot next to a body of water want. That's spending a ton of money on something we know will fail, that's utter pants.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby rmurphy195 » 28 Jul 2019, 12:32am

mjr wrote:No. Widen the towpaths that can be widened as needed and police the bits that cannot. Blanket bans are unjust and either they're not policed and punish only the lawabiding (while the reckless ignore them), or they're policed and it takes resources away from policing real reckless towpath use.


Who's going to pay for the policing?
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby mattsccm » 28 Jul 2019, 8:00am

None of this is likely to be done properly because there is no money.
I can see the point of restrictions in some places. In the same way that cyclists feel that they are a vulnerable minority on the roads, pedestrians feel vulnerable when surrounded by cyclists. They are not really compatible. Of course people will tell me that it works in Holland. That may be so but it was started before the pressure of numbers existed. To expect the huge change needed to happen here and now is a touch optimistic. In same way that it is doubtful if the sudden invention of the car would be unlikely to be accepted in 2019.
I think that cyclists need to accept that for every desire for sympathetic treatment there is one from the pedestrian and they out number us some what and always will. If we expect motorists to give something up we cannot complain when we are asked to.
The other issue is that so many cyclists care not a toss. I don't. I won't go near a city on foot or in a car so what goes on for cyclists in very much a low priority to me.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby pwa » 28 Jul 2019, 9:00am

Looking at this logically, we are talking about a situation in which there are too many cyclists and pedestrians trying to use the same route at the same time. The high demand is a good thing in itself, but the provision is inadequate. I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the answer is to take a lane from the nearest road (though it could be), but I believe more provision for sustainable transport is the answer to excessive demand.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby reohn2 » 28 Jul 2019, 9:47am

To my mind this could be solved by people showing mutual respect for one another.
In the article there was talk of people being in a hurry.If you're in a hurry it means you're late,you're late because you can't organise yourself,which indicates a lack of self respect,someone who has no self respect has even less for others.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby Cugel » 28 Jul 2019, 9:57am

pwa wrote:Looking at this logically, we are talking about a situation in which there are too many cyclists and pedestrians trying to use the same route at the same time. The high demand is a good thing in itself, but the provision is inadequate. I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the answer is to take a lane from the nearest road (though it could be), but I believe more provision for sustainable transport is the answer to excessive demand.


Why do we keep ignoring the root-cause of the problem? That is: too many highly inefficient, dangerous and polluting travel machines (cars) manufactured to be aggressive over-fast machines sold as macho-extensions.

The roads are fine for virtually all kinds of cycling of the utility kind, whether that's A to B journeys or going about for pleasure and fitness. Even today, they are generally fit for purpose in that the vast majority of us do not get car-pranged. The vast majority of us don't even get car-afeared. But if many are put-off cycling by car-fear then why not deal with the cause: fear-inducing transport modes & behaviours?

There's a virtue in dealing with the madness of car, since the things cause many, many ills besides putting folk off cycling. They pollute; they consume vast amounts of resource; they encourage or even demand anti-social behaviours; they're very inefficient and wasteful as a transport mode; they're a huge factor in climate change, etcetera.

No doubt there will be bleats that no one (especially today's pretend-politicians) will be willing to deal with the car problem. But consider this: if we don't deal with the car problem, no amount of tinkering about with bike paths or congestion charges will ever make a real and permanent difference to the ongoing deaths (million + per year) maiming (10 million+ per year) and environmental degradation of a planet-killing level that is done by the literally bluddy car worldwide.

It would be practically easy to begin, with application of the existing laws and a serious effort by policy makers to police road traffic to stop the ever-increasing aggression and dangerous driving. That policing could pay for itself with the fines. In time, car use as we currently indulge in could become like smoking - still legal but regarded as, basically, a filthy anti-social habit - which is what it is.

Cugel

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby pwa » 28 Jul 2019, 9:59am

Cugel wrote:
pwa wrote:Looking at this logically, we are talking about a situation in which there are too many cyclists and pedestrians trying to use the same route at the same time. The high demand is a good thing in itself, but the provision is inadequate. I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the answer is to take a lane from the nearest road (though it could be), but I believe more provision for sustainable transport is the answer to excessive demand.


Why do we keep ignoring the root-cause of the problem? That is: too many highly inefficient, dangerous and polluting travel machines (cars) manufactured to be aggressive over-fast machines sold as macho-extensions.

The roads are fine for virtually all kinds of cycling of the utility kind, whether that's A to B journeys or going about for pleasure and fitness. Even today, they are generally fit for purpose in that the vast majority of us do not get car-pranged. The vast majority of us don't even get car-afeared. But if many are put-off cycling by car-fear then why not deal with the cause: fear-inducing transport modes & behaviours?

There's a virtue in dealing with the madness of car, since the things cause many, many ills besides putting folk off cycling. They pollute; they consume vast amounts of resource; they encourage or even demand anti-social behaviours; they're very inefficient and wasteful as a transport mode; they're a huge factor in climate change, etcetera.

No doubt there will be bleats that no one (especially today's pretend-politicians) will be willing to deal with the car problem. But consider this: if we don't deal with the car problem, no amount of tinkering about with bike paths or congestion charges will ever make a real and permanent difference to the ongoing deaths (million + per year) maiming (10 million+ per year) and environmental degradation of a planet-killing level that is done by the literally bluddy car worldwide.

It would be practically easy to begin, with application of the existing laws and a serious effort by policy makers to police road traffic to stop the ever-increasing aggression and dangerous driving. That policing could pay for itself with the fines. In time, car use as we currently indulge in could become like smoking - still legal but regarded as, basically, a filthy anti-social habit - which is what it is.

Cugel

So you won't be driving this week?

The answer, in broad terms, is to invest in non-motorised transport where there is clearly a demand for it, as there is in this instance. People want to walk and cycle, so put in the infrastructure to allow them to do that without falling over each other.

pete75
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby pete75 » 28 Jul 2019, 10:05am

Ban pedestrians. In London they have a segregated path they can use on both sides of almost every road. Cyclists rarely have properly segregated routes.
Last edited by pete75 on 28 Jul 2019, 10:05am, edited 1 time in total.

merseymouth
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby merseymouth » 28 Jul 2019, 10:05am

Hi all, Should I use my trike on them? :lol: :lol: :lol: . TTFN MM