It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Vorpal
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby Vorpal » 28 Jul 2019, 10:12am

Another case of punish every cyclist in the universe because of a few ****.

The author of the piece in the Guardian is either being disingenuous, or just anti-cycling and saying he's a cyclist (because that makes it all better).

It is not appropriate to ride fast on a busy path anywhere, though it's somewhat worse on a tow path. He describes himself as being a **** and says that's why we should ban cyclists at peak times? Really?

But he starts with a story of a kitten being killed to evoke sympathy. Where the hell is the piece to bans cars on the roads because people get killed? Thousands are killed and injured every year, yet we need a piece about banning cyling on towpaths? Grrrr.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby PH » 28 Jul 2019, 10:59am

Below, on the towpath, lay her kitten.

The need to issue endless apologies to dogwalkers had disappeared.

small dogs trotting languidly by the water


There seems to be a theme here and the solution is clearly to ban pets from the canal paths.
I found it hard to take the article seriously, there are problems with the lack of respect and consideration for others, wherever you're travelling and by whatever means, this offers nothing to address it.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby skyhawk » 28 Jul 2019, 11:43am

As an AUTISTIC person and remember there are many many many people for whatever reason have "concerns" I am often annoyed by the selfish actions of cyclists and now electric scooter users.

I ride occasionally but always slow down for pedestrians, and animals as I love animals (bugger the owners :) ), and where it is narrowish and I may come too close to a person I STOP and wait for them to pass as I do horses.

However I have waled paths with my also autistic son and had cyclist pass at speeds 100% totally selfish, and could not care. YES I KNOW it is a minority but, it is that minority who spoil it for the rest of us.

I was almost hit by a cyclist on a PAVEMENT, closer than a foot, when I said watch it, he was so confrontational he also deliberately whilst sitting on the bike then pushed it over my foot. At 60 with aspergers I am not one to stand up for myself, so please remember there are some who DO spoil it for the majority

Finally dumb comment about banning cars from roads, roads were MADE for cars, narrow tow paths were not made for fast moving anything, bikes, scooters, motorbikes (which happens) they were made for horses and HUMANS if we and I say WE are to use them do so with consideration, you don't know what mental state or disability that pedestrian may have, do you ?
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby gaz » 28 Jul 2019, 12:03pm

skyhawk wrote:... roads were MADE for cars, ...

I'd advise you to fact check that part of your statement.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 28 Jul 2019, 12:13pm

And the one about towpaths. Bikes were used on towpaths at speed (for lock-wheeling, by professional boaters) long before towpaths were formally opened up to recreational use by the general public.

The entire Observer article is b...(filter-invoking rude word preemptively removed). There is a genuine issue in precisely two places, the Regents Canal and the western Kennet & Avon. Elsewhere there are incidents but nothing systemic. It’s the Observer/Guardian being London-centric and clickbaity, sadly.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Jul 2019, 12:14pm

gaz wrote:
skyhawk wrote:... roads were MADE for cars, ...

I'd advise you to fact check that part of your statement.

There is a book with that title, with 'not' in the middle :wink:
Roads were made for PoFs and PoHs people on horses
And people on cefyllau haearn, iron horses, cycles
Last edited by brynpoeth on 28 Jul 2019, 12:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby reohn2 » 28 Jul 2019, 12:15pm

gaz wrote:
skyhawk wrote:... roads were MADE for cars, ...

I'd advise you to fact check that part of your statement.

Quite!
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby pete75 » 28 Jul 2019, 12:56pm

skyhawk wrote:... roads were MADE for cars, ...


Mareham Lane, a road I use quite often, was built by the Romans. Somehow I don't think it was made for cars.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby Cugel » 28 Jul 2019, 12:59pm

pwa wrote:
Cugel wrote:
pwa wrote:Looking at this logically, we are talking about a situation in which there are too many cyclists and pedestrians trying to use the same route at the same time. The high demand is a good thing in itself, but the provision is inadequate. I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the answer is to take a lane from the nearest road (though it could be), but I believe more provision for sustainable transport is the answer to excessive demand.


Why do we keep ignoring the root-cause of the problem? That is: too many highly inefficient, dangerous and polluting travel machines (cars) manufactured to be aggressive over-fast machines sold as macho-extensions.

The roads are fine for virtually all kinds of cycling of the utility kind, whether that's A to B journeys or going about for pleasure and fitness. Even today, they are generally fit for purpose in that the vast majority of us do not get car-pranged. The vast majority of us don't even get car-afeared. But if many are put-off cycling by car-fear then why not deal with the cause: fear-inducing transport modes & behaviours?

There's a virtue in dealing with the madness of car, since the things cause many, many ills besides putting folk off cycling. They pollute; they consume vast amounts of resource; they encourage or even demand anti-social behaviours; they're very inefficient and wasteful as a transport mode; they're a huge factor in climate change, etcetera.

No doubt there will be bleats that no one (especially today's pretend-politicians) will be willing to deal with the car problem. But consider this: if we don't deal with the car problem, no amount of tinkering about with bike paths or congestion charges will ever make a real and permanent difference to the ongoing deaths (million + per year) maiming (10 million+ per year) and environmental degradation of a planet-killing level that is done by the literally bluddy car worldwide.

It would be practically easy to begin, with application of the existing laws and a serious effort by policy makers to police road traffic to stop the ever-increasing aggression and dangerous driving. That policing could pay for itself with the fines. In time, car use as we currently indulge in could become like smoking - still legal but regarded as, basically, a filthy anti-social habit - which is what it is.

Cugel

So you won't be driving this week?

The answer, in broad terms, is to invest in non-motorised transport where there is clearly a demand for it, as there is in this instance. People want to walk and cycle, so put in the infrastructure to allow them to do that without falling over each other.


No, but I'll be driving the electric thing, very carefully indeed so as to maintain my record of never having caused another direct injury. I'll drive only when walking and the bike won't do, which they will for a lot of what others do via a drive.

I don't advocate the obliteration of cars but a move to greatly reducing the harm they do. That means smaller, slower, electric and put in a hierarchy where they are the last personal transport option, regarded and policed as the most potentially dangerous. They should also be given lowest priority on any road hosting cyclists, horses and scooters - or any other low-harm & efficient personal transport.

In short, spend not on useless white lines and cycle-ped paths but instead curtailing and policing the car (financed by the fines for misuse and the saving on less-damaged road infrastructure) rather than on spurious and inadequate cycling infrastructure that's just a sop and introduces more problems than it solves by being too narrow, not going anywhere much and mixing in pedestrians, dogs, children, pushchairs, horses et al.

In even shorter: solving a dozen socio-economic ills caused by the car instead of one teeny aspect for cyclists alone - that doesn't even work well.

Cugel

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Jul 2019, 1:19pm

Right again Cugel
Did I mention that I gave up my vehicle many weeks ago? :wink:
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby skyhawk » 28 Jul 2019, 1:33pm

reohn2 wrote:
gaz wrote:
skyhawk wrote:... roads were MADE for cars, ...

I'd advise you to fact check that part of your statement.

Quite!



You know very well I am talking roads since cars were introduced, a and b and motorways don't split hairs
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby reohn2 » 28 Jul 2019, 1:44pm

skyhawk wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
gaz wrote:I'd advise you to fact check that part of your statement.

Quite!



You know very well I am talking roads since cars were introduced, a and b and motorways don't split hairs

I'm not splitting hairs,roads were here well before the motorcar and it was the CTC as was,that campaigned for their improved surfacing,again before the advent of motors!
Last edited by reohn2 on 28 Jul 2019, 3:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby pwa » 28 Jul 2019, 1:44pm

skyhawk wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
gaz wrote:I'd advise you to fact check that part of your statement.

Quite!



You know very well I am talking roads since cars were introduced, a and b and motorways don't split hairs

I am not sure what this has to do with anything, but all of the A and B roads around here were made for walkers, horses, cattle and, for the minority made after the late Nineteenth Century, bicycles. Few if any were made after the introduction of the car. But a cursory glance at the Highway Code will reveal that most roads are for all road user groups. There is nothing to stop roads being redesignated though, as our requirements change. Nothing is forever. Think of the once congested town centre streets that are now pedestrianised.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby Carlton green » 28 Jul 2019, 2:04pm

skyhawk wrote:As an AUTISTIC person and remember there are many many many people for whatever reason have "concerns" I am often annoyed by the selfish actions of cyclists and now electric scooter users.

I ride occasionally but always slow down for pedestrians, and animals as I love animals (bugger the owners :) ), and where it is narrowish and I may come too close to a person I STOP and wait for them to pass as I do horses.

However I have waled paths with my also autistic son and had cyclist pass at speeds 100% totally selfish, and could not care. YES I KNOW it is a minority but, it is that minority who spoil it for the rest of us.

I was almost hit by a cyclist on a PAVEMENT, closer than a foot, when I said watch it, he was so confrontational he also deliberately whilst sitting on the bike then pushed it over my foot. At 60 with aspergers I am not one to stand up for myself, so please remember there are some who DO spoil it for the majority

Finally dumb comment about banning cars from roads, roads were MADE for cars, narrow tow paths were not made for fast moving anything, bikes, scooters, motorbikes (which happens) they were made for horses and HUMANS if we and I say WE are to use them do so with consideration, you don't know what mental state or disability that pedestrian may have, do you ?


I thought the gist of your post was spot on. Some folk seem to have misunderstood your comment about roads being made for cars. I understand that cyclists’ rightly dislike the dominance of motorised traffic on today’s roads and would like things to be different. Nothing is forever and perhaps, at some point, cyclists might be able to reclaim fair use of our transport network.

The Motorway network (so roads) was and is made for cars and lorries, bicycles are not allowed on it and neither are horses and pedestrians. Today’s Dual Carriageways are virtually all made for cars in that there are many thousands of miles of roads in this country that have been either widened to cope with large volumes of motorised vehicle traffic or built specifically to carry cars and lorries, etc. - precious little if any thought has been given to their use by other groups like cyclists. It would be true to say that many roads were originally built for pedestrian and horse ridden or drawn use (so those roads were not originally built for cars), however those roads have long since changed in both their nature of use and surface construction - one could say that they have been rebuilt for cars and lorries.
Last edited by Carlton green on 28 Jul 2019, 2:19pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: It’s time to ban bikes at peak times - tow paths

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Jul 2019, 2:07pm

Maybe one-way rules could be used, some canals have a path on each side
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