Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

reohn2
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby reohn2 » 18 Aug 2019, 5:47pm

fastpedaller wrote:........ Bullies.

Attempted.
Bullies are noted for backing down when the kickback comes :wink:
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boris
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby boris » 18 Aug 2019, 8:23pm

There is also a Parish Councillor, Bob Anwyl-Hughes, who lives at Saxons, Warren Row Road (the exact same postcode as the café in question).

https://hurleyparish.org.uk/contacts.html

He ran the pub (which failed), and is listed as the complainant in planning documents.



Now that is an important fact in this case. It seems corrupt, but rather obvious. Usually they get another councillor to do the dirty as a favour.Why would he want to do the cafe in?

I really would like to know how many cyclists are rolling into the cafe. If it is a hundred a week then clearly this is all nimbyism, which should be no surprise in an area like that. But , if it is several thousand then one might find some sympathy for the locals on a nice weekend.

Colin_P
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby Colin_P » 19 Aug 2019, 3:32am

It seems that it is solved and will remain open.

https://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk ... -cafe.html

I'm local'ish and it is in the most idealic location on a quiet country lane and does nobody any harm.

This isn't just a cafe that cyclists happen to go to either, it exclusively exists for them, a brilliant place.

brynpoeth
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby brynpoeth » 19 Aug 2019, 6:03am

The article is a bit unclear, I am not at all sure the situation (opportunity?) has been resolved

Did see one possible solution: if one plans a loud party that might annoy the neighbours, one might allay danger of complaints by inviting the neighbours to join in the fun :?

What sort of people live in the Maidenhead area? Whatabout the Glastonbury festival?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Aug 2019, 8:11am

Does anyone think that BC and CUK involvement and subsequent joint statement with the council are a good bit of self promotion but nothing has actually changed with the risks to the cafes continuing operation at those premises? AIUI any meets starting off from that cafe could still result in action against it. Any group can still arrange a meet from there without any involvement of the cafe or its owner / operator.

So what have BC and CUK really achieved? Clarification of what was already known?!

slowster
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby slowster » 19 Aug 2019, 9:19am

BC and CyclingUK probably got involved because the council/plannig inspector had written directly to local cycling clubs telling them that they were not to use the cafe for meets (and possibly indicating that the injunction being sought would extend to to the clubs).

The council withdrew those threats to the cycling clubs, but is still seeking an injunction which requires the cafe owner not to permit clubs to use the cafe for meets, i.e. tantamount to compelling the owner to ban clubs from the cafe.

BC and CyclingUK's interest in this is how it affects their members and cyclists, they are not involved to help or protect the cafe owner except insofar as it is an indirect consequence of them protecting the interests of their members and cyclists.

reohn2
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby reohn2 » 19 Aug 2019, 9:38am

Tangled Metal wrote:Does anyone think that BC and CUK involvement and subsequent joint statement with the council are a good bit of self promotion but nothing has actually changed with the risks to the cafes continuing operation at those premises? AIUI any meets starting off from that cafe could still result in action against it. Any group can still arrange a meet from there without any involvement of the cafe or its owner / operator.

So what have BC and CUK really achieved? Clarification of what was already known?!

You're not alone in your assumptions.
IMO what really needs to happen is the bullies(council)need taking to task legally on what appears to be unfounded threats and accusations.
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mercalia
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby mercalia » 19 Aug 2019, 12:28pm

Colin_P wrote:It seems that it is solved and will remain open.

https://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk ... -cafe.html

I'm local'ish and it is in the most idealic location on a quiet country lane and does nobody any harm.

This isn't just a cafe that cyclists happen to go to either, it exclusively exists for them, a brilliant place.



was completely misguided in the first place? DId they make an ASBO against the cycling club? doubt it. Planning permission rules have no force other than against the cafe owner? And a cafe is a cafe? Can you use planning rules to restrict the number of customers or type of customer? sounds doubtful? That sounds illegal under equality laws?

So this is the cafe -

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/late ... ner-434807

A government planning inspector was called in to handle the dispute last year, ruling that Velolife could continue as a café and cycle repair shop but that organised meetings of cyclists must not start or finish at the café.

Maybe need to restrict the size of cycling groups? I have seen cycling groups in London take over the road and are a real menace

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby The utility cyclist » 19 Aug 2019, 9:35pm

slowster wrote:BC and CyclingUK probably got involved because the council/plannig inspector had written directly to local cycling clubs telling them that they were not to use the cafe for meets (and possibly indicating that the injunction being sought would extend to to the clubs).

The council withdrew those threats to the cycling clubs, but is still seeking an injunction which requires the cafe owner not to permit clubs to use the cafe for meets, i.e. tantamount to compelling the owner to ban clubs from the cafe.

BC and CyclingUK's interest in this is how it affects their members and cyclists, they are not involved to help or protect the cafe owner except insofar as it is an indirect consequence of them protecting the interests of their members and cyclists.

Doesn't it specifically say 'cyclists' meet?
In which case the injunction is not legal with regards to the clientele, they enter as pedestrians/they exit as pedestrians, they only become cyclists when they are pedalling their conveyance.
They are clearly not meeting there as cyclists, they are only cyclists on approach but become pedestrians the moment they get off and thus the notice or whatever does not apply as they have entered the property not as cyclists at all.
Silly mistake to make by the council and the inspector :twisted: I ope the council get taken to the cleaners and they are exposed as being bent in any case.

reohn2
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby reohn2 » 19 Aug 2019, 9:43pm

I wonder if the council could/would/attempt the same restrictions if Christians,Muslims, jam makers,running clubs<insert your group of choice here> were meeting there.
The whole issue beggars belief IMO :twisted:
Last edited by reohn2 on 20 Aug 2019, 8:28am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Aug 2019, 10:23pm

Just like motorists driving to the cafe at pedestrians going into the cafe. You could even say motorists at motorway service stations are also pedestrians when they go into your service station. Riding a bike into the velolife cafe car park then walking into the cafe is no different from driving into the car park or any other eating establishment carpark before walking in.

I think that whole argument about walking into the cafe without bike / car makes them pedestrians ridiculous. They're cyclists because they reached the place by b bike or by bike attached to car with the intention to ride the bike afterwards or before cafe stop.

This whole incident is getting ridiculous. If there's a noise issue it should be investigated and managed. If there isn't then no action should have been taken other than determining that. If club meets are causing a noise issue then clubs should be responsible enough to help the situation perhaps by changing meet venues to places where their noise isn't going to be an issue. Whatever the case punishing the cafe doesn't seem fair or right.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby The utility cyclist » 20 Aug 2019, 1:15am

The law is clear if you are on foot you are a pedestrian*, even if you have a bike in hand. there's nothing ridiculous about it, only the council (probably) unlawful injunction is ridiculous!

*Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441, wheeling a bike is not "riding" it, per Waller LJ, "In my judgment a person who is walking across a pedestrian crossing pushing a bicycle, having started on the pavement on one side on her feet and not on the bicycle, and going across pushing the bicycle with both feet on the ground so to speak is clearly a 'foot passenger'

brynpoeth
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Aug 2019, 4:58am

I think it might be worth involving the member of parliament for the area, I nearly forgot her name :?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby Tangled Metal » 20 Aug 2019, 8:18am

Yet to see a chain gang wheeling their bikes on a club meet in team lycra. That is ridiculous. If a group are meeting up to ride bikes they're cyclists. If they are having a latte at the cafe before setting off they're cyclists having a latte. Walking and having a latte aren't the main reason they're there if they're meeting for a club meet.

Isn't that the way most people would see it? If your kitted up for a ride, bike nearby, your cycling buddies are with you and your main activity will be cycling, you're a cyclist.

reohn2
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Re: Council limiting modes of transport to a cycling cafe

Postby reohn2 » 20 Aug 2019, 8:33am

Tangled Metal wrote:Yet to see a chain gang wheeling their bikes on a club meet in team lycra. That is ridiculous. If a group are meeting up to ride bikes they're cyclists. If they are having a latte at the cafe before setting off they're cyclists having a latte. Walking and having a latte aren't the main reason they're there if they're meeting for a club meet.

Isn't that the way most people would see it? If your kitted up for a ride, bike nearby, your cycling buddies are with you and your main activity will be cycling, you're a cyclist.

And the whole issue over this seems on the face of it,is based on prejudice against a group or groups for what seems to be an undisclosed reason.
The council's objections couldnt be more ridiculous.
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