Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Vorpal
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby Vorpal » 9 Aug 2019, 2:25pm

poetd wrote:I'm not saying I'm against these events, but I can ALSO (imagine being able to hold 2 positions at the same time, must seem frightening to some of you) sympathise with people who are against these events for that exact reason.
It's not really fair to say to someone - "Sorry you have to cancel all weekend plans that involve any travel out of town because some amateurs want to go cycling around your area."

There are all sorts of alternatives to cancelling plans...

Park somewhere else the night before & walk or cycle to your car. Ask the organisers / local authority for parking alternatives. Leave before the event starts. Stay overnight. Use public transport. Stay with friends or family.

I can sympathise with people who don't want such an event in their area, but much of the problem is a motor-centric culture that means people feel they have right to drive from their homes to other places whenever they like.

Would you say the same about a community organised 'car free' day? Making a street a play street for a few hours on Saturday? Closing the street for a block party?
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 9 Aug 2019, 4:03pm

A few weeks ago I had difficulty driving to my elderly mother's house to pick her up and bring her to our house for the evening. There was an event (Victorian fair, whatever than means) going on in the small town where she lives and street after street was cordoned off. Eventually I found a complicated route round, so all was well. But if I had been unable to drive to her house she would have been stuck in her house alone for that day, and it was the only day we had free. She can't use a bike. The bus route was blocked. As I say, I found a way round so there was no problem but it makes me realise that closing roads does mean a loss for some people. And saying that they should just go and stand by the road and cheer others doing a hobby they themselves don't care about is laughable. Road closures should be kept short and removed at the earliest opportunity.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby Vorpal » 9 Aug 2019, 4:08pm

It does cause a loss for some people. But that loss doesn't occur because of a particular event. That loss occurs because of dependency on personal motor vehicles and (sometimes) a lack of support for folks who can be housebound by such events.
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 9 Aug 2019, 4:18pm

Vorpal wrote:It does cause a loss for some people. But that loss doesn't occur because of a particular event. That loss occurs because of dependency on personal motor vehicles and (sometimes) a lack of support for folks who can be housebound by such events.

My mum has a neighbour who has advanced MS and yes, she relies on the camper van driven by her (also disabled) husband to get out of the house. The carers who attend to them a couple of times a day arrive by car, which is probably the only practical option given their partly rural area. The requirement of other people to move about should not be dismissed lightly.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby mjr » 9 Aug 2019, 5:28pm

pwa wrote:There was an event (Victorian fair, whatever than means) going on in the small town where she lives and street after street was cordoned off. Eventually I found a complicated route round, so all was well. But if I had been unable to drive to her house she would have been stuck in her house alone for that day, [...]

1. Wasn't there notice of the closure?

2. Was the local media full of stories encouraging hatred of Victorians?
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby poetd » 9 Aug 2019, 5:40pm

Would it really hurt to see things from the others perspective just for a second?

:roll:

In both mine and the case posted above, we found a way around (eventually in my case via dozens of emails to the council) - but instead of seeing those who might face similar issues as the enemy "Their fault for relying on the car" "They should move out of their house for a few days" - why not try a more conciliatory tone?

You're going to win more people to your cause with "Yeah, I appreciate road closures can have a real impact on some people, so we'll try and find a way to accommodate that where we can" - than with "Stupid motons".

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 9 Aug 2019, 5:42pm

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:There was an event (Victorian fair, whatever than means) going on in the small town where she lives and street after street was cordoned off. Eventually I found a complicated route round, so all was well. But if I had been unable to drive to her house she would have been stuck in her house alone for that day, [...]

1. Wasn't there notice of the closure?

2. Was the local media full of stories encouraging hatred of Victorians?

There was notice given but frankly, we were having a busy week with a lot going on and forgot about it. As I said, I could get round it but in doing so I considered what it would be like if road closures meant I couldn't get to my mum's place. And what it might have meant for the other residents in that street inhabited mainly by frail, elderly people. Hypothetical, I know, but it made me think. Road closures will not have an adverse effect only on petrolheads. They will have a greater effect on people who find it difficult to get around anyway. So my point is that road closures should be minimised, and for the shortest time possible. Maybe that is the case anyway, I don't know.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby mjr » 9 Aug 2019, 5:50pm

pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:There was an event (Victorian fair, whatever than means) going on in the small town where she lives and street after street was cordoned off. Eventually I found a complicated route round, so all was well. But if I had been unable to drive to her house she would have been stuck in her house alone for that day, [...]

1. Wasn't there notice of the closure?

2. Was the local media full of stories encouraging hatred of Victorians?

There was notice given but frankly, we were having a busy week with a lot going on and forgot about it. As I said, I could get round it but in doing so I considered what it would be like if road closures meant I couldn't get to my mum's place. And what it might have meant for the other residents in that street inhabited mainly by frail, elderly people. Hypothetical, I know, but it made me think. Road closures will not have an adverse effect only on petrolheads. They will have a greater effect on people who find it difficult to get around anyway. So my point is that road closures should be minimised, and for the shortest time possible. Maybe that is the case anyway, I don't know.

So if you had remembered, you could have walked to visit her without problem? An elderly mother need not be "stuck alone" [moderated]. OK, it's not a day out, but it's not necessarily "stuck alone" or other exaggerated emotive language like that.

I accept that road closures should be no longer than needed - were the Victorians taking an unnecessarily long time holding their fair, then?

And I suspect from the lack of answer that the local press was not full of anti-Victorian bleating. They wouldn't dare treat Victorians like they treat cyclists because they'd probably get the belt!
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 9 Aug 2019, 5:55pm

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:1. Wasn't there notice of the closure?

2. Was the local media full of stories encouraging hatred of Victorians?

There was notice given but frankly, we were having a busy week with a lot going on and forgot about it. As I said, I could get round it but in doing so I considered what it would be like if road closures meant I couldn't get to my mum's place. And what it might have meant for the other residents in that street inhabited mainly by frail, elderly people. Hypothetical, I know, but it made me think. Road closures will not have an adverse effect only on petrolheads. They will have a greater effect on people who find it difficult to get around anyway. So my point is that road closures should be minimised, and for the shortest time possible. Maybe that is the case anyway, I don't know.

So if you had remembered, you could have walked to visit her without problem? An elderly mother need not be "stuck alone" [moderated] OK, it's not a day out, but it's not necessarily "stuck alone" or other exaggerated emotive language like that.

I accept that road closures should be no longer than needed - were the Victorians taking an unnecessarily long time holding their fair, then?

And I suspect from the lack of answer that the local press was not full of anti-Victorian bleating. They wouldn't dare treat Victorians like they treat cyclists because they'd probably get the belt!

God you're downright rude sometimes.

Believe it or not old people want to get out of their homes sometimes, and their relatives often attend to that at weekends when there is time to do that.

I couldn't care less what the local press were or weren't bleating about. Probably still focused on dog muck. As it happens the local press usually only has positive stories about cycling.

(Just for the benefit of anyone who has come late to this discussion, I am not against all road closures. I am simply making the point that people who find their homes cut off from the road network deserve consideration and for that reason road closures should be as short as possible).

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby PH » 9 Aug 2019, 9:41pm

poetd wrote:It's not really fair to say to someone - "Sorry you have to cancel all weekend plans that involve any travel out of town because some amateurs want to go cycling around your area."

Would it be all right if they were professionals then?
Public spaces getting used for mass events will always cause others some inconvenience. The roads are public spaces and IMO it's good that they're considered as such and that a variety of uses and users get to take advantage of them.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby PH » 9 Aug 2019, 9:43pm

As for the question posted by he OP - I don't know, but does it matter? Thousands on people had a good weekend on their bikes, anything else is a bonus.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby hemo » 10 Aug 2019, 9:25am

One of the customers I delivered to was in Holmbury St Mary and as someone has mentioned,she simply parked her vehicle else where so that they could get out and use unaffected routes.

Others bemoan it's called ride London and since when are the Surrey hills part of London, they make the point of not in my back yard and they daren't inconvenience Londoner's by closing the Capital down for a whole day.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby brynpoeth » 10 Aug 2019, 9:40am

As someone noted elsewhere, there are simply too many cyclists in Surrey :?
Could it be that these mass events are actually organised by the anti-cycling lobby to make cycling unpopular? :? :wink:

I am quite sociable but I cannae imagine why one would want to go cycling with thousands of others

TDC should be considered too
There are too many cyclists, and driving is so cheap & attractive
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby Vorpal » 10 Aug 2019, 10:23am

pwa wrote:
Believe it or not old people want to get out of their homes sometimes, and their relatives often attend to that at weekends when there is time to do that.

What would you do if you didn't have a car? Not everyone does.
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 10 Aug 2019, 10:29am

Vorpal wrote:
pwa wrote:
Believe it or not old people want to get out of their homes sometimes, and their relatives often attend to that at weekends when there is time to do that.

What would you do if you didn't have a car? Not everyone does.

I'd go out and buy one. For things to do with looking after my Mum it is essential.