Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Vorpal
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby Vorpal » 10 Aug 2019, 10:35am

pwa wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
pwa wrote:
Believe it or not old people want to get out of their homes sometimes, and their relatives often attend to that at weekends when there is time to do that.

What would you do if you didn't have a car? Not everyone does.

I'd go out and buy one. For things to do with looking after my Mum it is essential.

That's a privilege not everyone has. What if you were not able to drive for some reason? What if you could not afford a car? Could you cycle over and take her out in a wheel chair? What is so eesential about using a car?
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pwa
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 10 Aug 2019, 10:48am

Vorpal wrote:
pwa wrote:
Vorpal wrote:What would you do if you didn't have a car? Not everyone does.

I'd go out and buy one. For things to do with looking after my Mum it is essential.

That's a privilege not everyone has. What if you were not able to drive for some reason? What if you could not afford a car? Could you cycle over and take her out in a wheel chair? What is so eesential about using a car?

Last week my wife went round in the car (about 4 miles) to pick Mum up and take her to a local furniture emporium to buy one of those comfy but tall chairs old people find easier to get up from. The retailer is a mile and a half from Mum's house, but not on a bus route. They have a very large old hangar on a former airfield. We could have ordered a taxi but that would have just been another car with one more person in, and extra mileage for the vehicle.

Yesterday Mum had a doctor's appointment. The surgery is only a half mile walk and in good weather she will walk it, if she is not too unwell. But yesterday was stormy, so my wife went round with the car to take her there. Again, we could have ordered a taxi that would probably have put more car miles on the road.

Tomorrow we may have her round here in the evening, to give her a change of scenery. Car again. With younger and fitter family members you can certainly say "There is a bus they can use" or "Why don't they get on a bike or walk it?". But when the family member is very old you do employ the car a bit more.

(This is all getting Off Topic so I will understand if folk carry on talking about RL rather than going down this cul-de-sac)

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby Zulu Eleven » 10 Aug 2019, 11:22am

I’m of the belief that Ride London actively makes things worse for the local cycling community.

Disregarding in any way the frustration the road closures might cause to local residents, There’s two reasons for this:

1) The route is designed for closed road, competition use, rather than general recreational cycling - as a result, it uses a number of main roads with significant accident profiles, high speed limits and dangerous passing places, all roads that one would not, IMO, ordinarily choose to cycle along when there are a variety of quieter, more picturesque and pleasant minor roads that would make far better choices for cyclists to use the other 364 days of the year. The result is that this (inappropriate) route is used for club runs and practice runs by thousands of cyclists throughout the year.

2) because of this, The effect on local communities along the route, particularly the villages, isn’t just one day a year, it’s every weekend, particularly during the weeks prior to the event. This increases conflict between local motorists and riders, with drivers caught behind groups of cyclists, it’s exacerbated hugely by the frankly anti-social behaviour of a significant minority of those riders, be that micturating by the roadside, dropping energy gel wrappers, shouting and hollering to each other, or riding like dicks - and I’ll make a particular mention here of how many of those riders act around horses, rather than slowing down and give it them room - whether you put that down to adrenaline or whatever, I don’t care, it’s simply not good enough.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 10 Aug 2019, 11:44am

Zulu Eleven wrote:I’m of the belief that Ride London actively makes things worse for the local cycling community.

Disregarding in any way the frustration the road closures might cause to local residents, There’s two reasons for this:

1) The route is designed for closed road, competition use, rather than general recreational cycling - as a result, it uses a number of main roads with significant accident profiles, high speed limits and dangerous passing places, all roads that one would not, IMO, ordinarily choose to cycle along when there are a variety of quieter, more picturesque and pleasant minor roads that would make far better choices for cyclists to use the other 364 days of the year. The result is that this (inappropriate) route is used for club runs and practice runs by thousands of cyclists throughout the year.

2) because of this, The effect on local communities along the route, particularly the villages, isn’t just one day a year, it’s every weekend, particularly during the weeks prior to the event. This increases conflict between local motorists and riders, with drivers caught behind groups of cyclists, it’s exacerbated hugely by the frankly anti-social behaviour of a significant minority of those riders, be that micturating by the roadside, dropping energy gel wrappers, shouting and hollering to each other, or riding like dicks - and I’ll make a particular mention here of how many of those riders act around horses, rather than slowing down and give it them room - whether you put that down to adrenaline or whatever, I don’t care, it’s simply not good enough.


My own village is on a very popular route for club cyclists but around here i don't feel that drivers are too worried by the odd delay that causes.

But on the other points, bad behaviour by a few can certainly reduce tolerance of the rest of us. That does make me cringe when I see it.

De Sisti
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby De Sisti » 10 Aug 2019, 12:08pm

The thing about this ride is that you have to raise cash for a charitible cause (happy to be corrected). :)
I wish they'd just let people pay an entry fee and ride the dam thing.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby mjr » 10 Aug 2019, 2:22pm

De Sisti wrote:The thing about this ride is that you have to raise cash for a charitible cause (happy to be corrected). :)
I wish they'd just let people pay an entry fee and ride the dam thing.

You can pay an entry fee and ride but places are very oversubscribed so there is a ballot. Charity places are less pressurised because charities pay more for them and the fundraising done counts towards RL's charitable aims (one of its organisers is London Marathon).

It used to be called Ride London Surrey. Have Surrey stopped sponsoring it?

As to the bad behaviour, once cars are silent, don't emit noxious waste and their occupants stop throwing litter, then maybe we should worry about the much smaller number of noisy, peeing, littering cyclists. Motorists don't like it when others do as they do, do they?
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby Ron » 11 Aug 2019, 2:44pm

pwa wrote:Every bum on a saddle helps to make cycling more normal.

I don't believe this is true.
If the rider him or herself is clearly recognisable and dressed in normal everyday clothes your statement is true. However the sight of someone in the anything but normal garb of a sporting cyclist is quite repulsive to many and certainly a disincentive to become engaged with the activity of cycling.
Sadly many people in the UK are unable to differentiate between sport and utility cycling, to the detriment of the latter.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 11 Aug 2019, 4:27pm

Ron wrote:
pwa wrote:Every bum on a saddle helps to make cycling more normal.

I don't believe this is true.
If the rider him or herself is clearly recognisable and dressed in normal everyday clothes your statement is true. However the sight of someone in the anything but normal garb of a sporting cyclist is quite repulsive to many and certainly a disincentive to become engaged with the activity of cycling.
Sadly many people in the UK are unable to differentiate between sport and utility cycling, to the detriment of the latter.

I was a lycra wearer for about 20 years of my cycling, including on my commute, and over that period lycra wearing became less unusual. Today no-one thinks anything of it if they see a cyclist in lycra. When I started wearing lycra it was almost an old fashioned thing, worn by ageing time triallists with grey hair. Now it is worn by a wide age spectrum and people with widely varying fitness levels. Lycra, in short, is not unusual anymore. Here in Wales it is even worn by the national rugby team, by joggers and folk in the gym. People doing exercise. And doing exercise is not a freak thing anymore. It is a variety of normal, as lycra is.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby The utility cyclist » 11 Aug 2019, 6:27pm

mattheus wrote:
pwa wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4699373,-3.5905902,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s247KqckHvFTxXc6uy3ZcEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB

I have been cycling this bit or road for a good few years. First around 1990, but a lot more frequently since I moved to my current home around 20 years ago. When I fist cycled it I was part of an endangered species with very few other cyclists on that road. Being treated as a nuisance by other road users, whilst not the norm, was not uncommon. But these days the number of cyclists on that road has increased greatly. Off the top of my head I would say quadrupled or more. Largely because that road is a prime route for cyclists in the urban area of Bridgend wanting to get into the great cycling country of the Vale (of Glamorgan). So you see a lot of lycra, but also less sporty folk riding their cheap bikes they got from Halfords. And the reaction of drivers finding a cyclist on the road has improved.


This is the "Strength in Numbers" effect that CTC has prmoted for quite a few years, and I most certainly believe it! I see it every day when comparing different roads that I use.

Injuries up deaths not going down, it's simply not true thus far.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby pwa » 11 Aug 2019, 7:12pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
mattheus wrote:
pwa wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4699373,-3.5905902,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s247KqckHvFTxXc6uy3ZcEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB

I have been cycling this bit or road for a good few years. First around 1990, but a lot more frequently since I moved to my current home around 20 years ago. When I fist cycled it I was part of an endangered species with very few other cyclists on that road. Being treated as a nuisance by other road users, whilst not the norm, was not uncommon. But these days the number of cyclists on that road has increased greatly. Off the top of my head I would say quadrupled or more. Largely because that road is a prime route for cyclists in the urban area of Bridgend wanting to get into the great cycling country of the Vale (of Glamorgan). So you see a lot of lycra, but also less sporty folk riding their cheap bikes they got from Halfords. And the reaction of drivers finding a cyclist on the road has improved.


This is the "Strength in Numbers" effect that CTC has prmoted for quite a few years, and I most certainly believe it! I see it every day when comparing different roads that I use.

Injuries up deaths not going down, it's simply not true thus far.

I don't know about London / Surrey, and I don't know about where you are, but where I am it feels like cycling is more "normal" and less objected to than was the case twenty years ago.
Last edited by pwa on 12 Aug 2019, 6:36am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby The utility cyclist » 11 Aug 2019, 8:21pm

pwa wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
mattheus wrote:
This is the "Strength in Numbers" effect that CTC has prmoted for quite a few years, and I most certainly believe it! I see it every day when comparing different roads that I use.

Injuries up deaths not going down, it's simply not true thus far.

I don't know about London / Surrey, and I don't know about where you are, but where I am it feels like cycling is more "normal" and less objected to that was the case twenty years ago.

Overall since 2005 injuries are up, significantly more so than to peds and even motorcyclists!

Two very close misses from a 7.5high sided and bus in a matter of hours plus all usual crud every day tells me it's SNAFU. I live in a small town with no large city nearby.


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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby awavey » 11 Aug 2019, 11:36pm

poetd wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
poetd wrote:
While all these events are great and fun etc, if you're not involved, being made a prisoner is not really ok.

A prisoner? You can't walk? or ride your bike? Or simply plan ahead and spend the day gardening?



We had already bought tickets for Brands Hatch when they announced our entire estate would be locked in due to road closures.
And no, walking from Leeds to Brands Hatch (or cycling) isn't reasonable by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not saying I'm against these events, but I can ALSO (imagine being able to hold 2 positions at the same time, must seem frightening to some of you) sympathise with people who are against these events for that exact reason.
It's not really fair to say to someone - "Sorry you have to cancel all weekend plans that involve any travel out of town because some amateurs want to go cycling around your area."


the BTCC round at Brands Hatch was held April 7th, Tour De Yorkshire was May 5th and the Leeds Triathlon was June 8-9th, so it wasnt any of those that were causing you an issue...plus you must be keen as Leeds to Brands hatch is probably minimum 4hr journey each way, racing starts at 10, though youd want to be there before 9 for the pit road walkabout and finishes at 6...seems like the more sensible option would be to go the night before and stay closer to the circuit then you arent going to driving tired...but then you cant complain about these other events disrupting you then can you

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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby brynpoeth » 12 Aug 2019, 5:03am

Someone was stopped from attending a motor 'sport' event, Plus One!
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Re: Ride London - Does it help the cause of cycling?

Postby poetd » 12 Aug 2019, 6:30am

awavey wrote:
the BTCC round at Brands Hatch was held April 7th, Tour De Yorkshire was May 5th and the Leeds Triathlon was June 8-9th, so it wasnt any of those that were causing you an issue...plus you must be keen as Leeds to Brands hatch is probably minimum 4hr journey each way, racing starts at 10, though youd want to be there before 9 for the pit road walkabout and finishes at 6...seems like the more sensible option would be to go the night before and stay closer to the circuit then you arent going to driving tired...but then you cant complain about these other events disrupting you then can you


Wasn't this year, was 2-3 years ago or so.

But you're right, you're all right.

I should have instead burnt the car and walked, making sure to guard the perimeter to the precious cycling event to ensure that no vehicles get through!

Someone dying? Block that ambulance! Let them die! We have important lycra to wear!
Need to make an emergency visit? Tough crud! We are lycra and you are nothing! Nothing!
House burning down? Good! Burn moton burn!

Thank you all for showing me the light. :)