MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

fastpedaller
Posts: 2147
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby fastpedaller » 22 Aug 2019, 2:23pm

And we continue to build more roads, and car manufacturers continue to promote more product with lease sales and scrappage deals.
What we need are a few more CYCLISTS & WALKERS ONLY cafe's (no motorists allowed ) :lol:

poetd
Posts: 92
Joined: 16 Jul 2019, 6:12pm

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby poetd » 22 Aug 2019, 2:36pm

Agree totally on more cyclists, but electric cars will make a massive difference - especially in many countries where a "short" journey is measured in the tens if not hundreds of miles and cycling isn't a sensible option.

The timely emergence of electric cars reminds of a previous time when every city and major town had a huge environmental problem that no-one had a solution to: horse crap.
It was everywhere as everything was delivered and transported by horses. It piled up faster than it could be cleared.
When it rained it would wash into peoples houses, spreading filth and disease.

No-one had any idea what to do to solve it, until the invention of the motor car which saved us from that impending environmental disaster.

Resourceful bunch us humans. :)

Samuel D
Posts: 2884
Joined: 8 Mar 2015, 11:05pm
Location: Paris

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Samuel D » 22 Aug 2019, 3:13pm

mjr wrote:Interesting. It shows me a picture of a crowded motorway in flickering low sun. Targetted media at the BBC?

Scroll down? I see that picture too.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14207
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby mjr » 22 Aug 2019, 3:50pm

poetd wrote:Agree totally on more cyclists, but electric cars will make a massive difference - especially in many countries where a "short" journey is measured in the tens if not hundreds of miles and cycling isn't a sensible option.

How might we head that off and have more e-bikes and e-motorbikes instead of a headlong plunge into oversize private one-per-person electric cars? Especially in many countries where a short journey is really short.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14207
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby mjr » 22 Aug 2019, 3:51pm

Samuel D wrote:
mjr wrote:Interesting. It shows me a picture of a crowded motorway in flickering low sun. Targetted media at the BBC?

Scroll down? I see that picture too.

Nope, only the motorway shown to me!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Samuel D
Posts: 2884
Joined: 8 Mar 2015, 11:05pm
Location: Paris

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Samuel D » 22 Aug 2019, 3:56pm

mjr wrote:
Samuel D wrote:
mjr wrote:Interesting. It shows me a picture of a crowded motorway in flickering low sun. Targetted media at the BBC?

Scroll down? I see that picture too.

Nope, only the motorway shown to me!

Huh. It’s not the point of this discussion, but here’s how it looks at my end. Not a very relatable image of cycling to go with the caption, “The report says we should be cycling more”.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14207
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby mjr » 22 Aug 2019, 3:58pm

poetd wrote:
mjr wrote:Partly answering myself, it seems from the 2018 Climate Change Committee Progress Report to Parliament that power generation industries have lowered emissions much more than individuals. Industrial uses have made modest reductions but Transport is the biggest contributor not reducing at all. So is it fair to expect individuals to do some stuff now too?


Those stats don't tell the whole story.

Sure, the power industry have made the biggest cuts, but when they are the largest contributors by a LONG way ( example https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nteractive ) - then they still need to do more and more pressure needs applying.

That link dates from 2013 when power was just starting its nosedive on the graph but was still the biggest UK contributor. As far as I see on the 2018 report graphs, by 2017, Transport was the biggest UK contributor and increasing, then Industry (falling slightly), then Buildings (almost flat), then Power, followed by Agriculture (almost flat). Does anything you have in your bookmarks say that power is still the largest contributor now?

I'm sure this isn't the whole story, but old data and mentioning "some estimates" in passing without saying what surely isn't the whole story either.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

poetd
Posts: 92
Joined: 16 Jul 2019, 6:12pm

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby poetd » 22 Aug 2019, 6:06pm

Agreed.
And the likes of you and I will never know the true figures anyway, about any of this, so it's as much emotive as it is fact based.

I have no issue doing my part, we've made a mess and I'm happy to help with the clear up.
I just hate being made to feel like it's ALL my fault when we all know perfectly well that industry can buy a blind eye from those supposed to oversee them and get away with literally murdering entire species, habitats, countries, and who knows maybe an entire planet.

mikeonabike
Posts: 172
Joined: 20 Jun 2016, 8:22am

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby mikeonabike » 22 Aug 2019, 7:16pm

According to "No Planet B", using 2018 UK statistics, the biggest use of energy is transport: 38% of the total.

Truth is of course that we need to use less energy in all sectors.

atlas_shrugged
Posts: 271
Joined: 8 Nov 2016, 7:50pm

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby atlas_shrugged » 23 Aug 2019, 8:43am

Yes the MP select group did say the public should get out of their cars.

Irresponsibly the MPs did not put forward a realistic alternative for the public to use. They mentioned public transport which is one of the most serious polluters of our cities, not to mention the expense, and the unreliable service. Stagecoach themselves acknowledge that bus usage is falling by 7% each year and this is with 100% subsidy for the over 60's.

Irresponsibly MPs themselves use chauffer driven limousines with darkened windows to transport themselves in London when they could use the heavily subsidised public transport which is much better in London than other areas of the country.

To find out how bad public transport is in the UK I did a test during LEL. Knowing the fondness of one of the cycle mechanics preference for pringles I bought two tubes and in Cambs gave these to two different cyclists to pass on at Lough (Lincs). Both cyclists delivered (one at 00:30 and one at 04:00) before public transport would have been able to deliver. The hapless public transport courier would have been shivering in his bus shelter at 7:00am before the first bus to take him the last 10 miles to Lough.

The public need to make point-to-point journeys which are fast, comfortable, and provide some protection from extreme weather. We have sustainable vehicles that can do this but we do not have safe, uninterrupted infrastructure. In NL, D, B, A they have already started to build this infrastructure that connects cities and towns. So this is possible. We need to prioritise Active travel before Slovenly travel.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2104
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Oldjohnw » 23 Aug 2019, 8:50am

It's hard to fault the views expressed in this report whilst deploring the lack of action at government level - without which progress is limited. But we also need to reduce our demands in pretty well every aspect of life: new this and that, meat, flights, cars, electric stuff, milk, restaurants, domestic energy consumption.

Btw, only ministers, not MPs, get chauffeur driven limos, unless they have private means.
John

Cycling and recycling

atlas_shrugged
Posts: 271
Joined: 8 Nov 2016, 7:50pm

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby atlas_shrugged » 23 Aug 2019, 8:54am

Nope.

Diane Abbot was picked up outside Westminster by a chauffeur driven limousine with darkened windows. She was not a minister and labour were not in power at the time.

Remember they are very important and we are nobodies.

Last time I crossed London was on a Brompton and it was brilliant. I did 8 miles around the south circular and saw 2 urban foxes. It was at 4:00am and no way would I do this journey at day time.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5968
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Aug 2019, 9:09am

What about carbon / pollution making electric cars? Is it a lot less than ICE cars? I only ask because I thought a high proportion of the carbon footprint of ICE cars is in production. Has this carbon footprint and pollution in the manufacture of electric cars reduced significantly from ICE production? If not then are electric cars really the solution?

Serious question. Electric cars are better than ICE cars definitely but are they really a long term solution? What percentage of the ICE car's lifetime pollution is the level of pollution of the electric car? Anyone seen such figures?

Electric bikes, mopeds and motorbikes might be a better option. Or electric mass transportation systems.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5968
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Aug 2019, 9:12am

Or even better, reduced travel demand. Home working where possible. End people commuting halfway across the south east or down the country each day. Or tele-conferencing instead of actually visiting clients (whether across the world, across Europe, across the country or even next town).

reohn2
Posts: 36774
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby reohn2 » 23 Aug 2019, 9:36am

Tangled Metal wrote:What about carbon / pollution making electric cars? Is it a lot less than ICE cars? I only ask because I thought a high proportion of the carbon footprint of ICE cars is in production. Has this carbon footprint and pollution in the manufacture of electric cars reduced significantly from ICE production? If not then are electric cars really the solution?

Serious question. Electric cars are better than ICE cars definitely but are they really a long term solution? What percentage of the ICE car's lifetime pollution is the level of pollution of the electric car? Anyone seen such figures?

Electric bikes, mopeds and motorbikes might be a better option. Or electric mass transportation systems.


The answer isn't electric cars other than for some journeys,the answer is public transport along with active travel.
The problem is capitalism in it's present unbridled free rein form,which means it's a political problem,government won't put the necessary restrictions on private car use because they're afraid they'll be voted out next GE and the present stupid government of the past decade is being funded by the companies causing the problems!
What's needed is a cross party agreement on a sustainable transport system,which we know won't happen so things will only get worse until such times we're all choking,by then it'll be too late.
Mean while Europe is streets ahead of this backward and stupid nation.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.