MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

roubaixtuesday
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby roubaixtuesday » 23 Aug 2019, 9:43am

Tangled Metal wrote:What about carbon / pollution making electric cars? Is it a lot less than ICE cars? I only ask because I thought a high proportion of the carbon footprint of ICE cars is in production. Has this carbon footprint and pollution in the manufacture of electric cars reduced significantly from ICE production? If not then are electric cars really the solution?

Serious question. Electric cars are better than ICE cars definitely but are they really a long term solution? What percentage of the ICE car's lifetime pollution is the level of pollution of the electric car? Anyone seen such figures?

Electric bikes, mopeds and motorbikes might be a better option. Or electric mass transportation systems.


Yes, but it depends on the source of the electricity. Here's a breakdown showing how it varies, source: https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-h ... ate-change

Capture.JPG

Tangled Metal
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Aug 2019, 10:01am

Is there a universal measure of lifecycle pollution? You generally only see CO2 or carbon footprint used.

It might sound like I'm clutching at straws trying to make EVs come out worse. I'm not but the push to diesel on CO2 emissions seems to me to have been a big mistake by ignoring the other pollution they release.

I just think there should be some way of considering the whole pollution footprint. If there isn't one it would make an interesting research project to develop one I reckon.

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Wanlock Dod » 23 Aug 2019, 10:18am

To do that you would need to be able to compare and combine the effects of e.g. carbon dioxide on climate change and nitrous oxides on human health. It is certainly not a straight forward problem.

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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Oldjohnw » 23 Aug 2019, 10:18am

atlas_shrugged wrote:Nope.

Diane Abbot was picked up outside Westminster by a chauffeur driven limousine with darkened windows. She was not a minister and labour were not in power at the time.

Remember they are very important and we are nobodies.

Last time I crossed London was on a Brompton and it was brilliant. I did 8 miles around the south circular and saw 2 urban foxes. It was at 4:00am and no way would I do this journey at day time.



She is the Shadow HS. You made it sound routine for all MPs which is not the case. My apologies if that is not what you meant.
John

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al_yrpal
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby al_yrpal » 23 Aug 2019, 10:21am

All MPs should be given Electric bikes and travel to Parliament on them! :lol:

Al
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Mike Sales
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Mike Sales » 23 Aug 2019, 10:24am

al_yrpal wrote:All MPs should be given Electric bikes and travel to Parliament on them! :lol:

Al


Didn't Callmedave have a car following when he cycled? And of course they would need security protection. I imagine a whole squadron of whirring suits on bikes, some with underarm bulges, with each MP.

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mjr
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby mjr » 23 Aug 2019, 10:36am

Mike Sales wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:All MPs should be given Electric bikes and travel to Parliament on them! :lol:

Al


Didn't Callmedave have a car following when he cycled? And of course they would need security protection. I imagine a whole squadron of whirring suits on bikes, some with underarm bulges, with each MP.

The car was moving excessive amounts of paper. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4953922.stm - interestingly, one of the critics in that report was Chris Huhne who had his own transport-related scandal later.

I don't think all MPs have security details yet. I've met some on trains over the years. Even if they did, some cycling royals are accompanied by police cycling (although their usual security travels by black 4x4s and I suspect some still do to go to the ride destination).
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Mike Sales
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Mike Sales » 23 Aug 2019, 10:41am

mjr wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:All MPs should be given Electric bikes and travel to Parliament on them! :lol:

Al


Didn't Callmedave have a car following when he cycled? And of course they would need security protection. I imagine a whole squadron of whirring suits on bikes, some with underarm bulges, with each MP.

The car was moving excessive amounts of paper. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4953922.stm - interestingly, one of the critics in that report was Chris Huhne who had his own transport-related scandal later.

I don't think all MPs have security details yet. I've met some on trains over the years. Even if they did, some cycling royals are accompanied by police cycling (although their usual security travels by black 4x4s and I suspect some still do to go to the ride destination).


A pity. Such a peloton might have a useful traffic calming effect!
Did Callme really need to move such a large amount of paper with him every day? I believe there are capacious cargo bikes on the market.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby atlas_shrugged » 23 Aug 2019, 10:47am

A 2 meter diameter polypipe between Downing Street and Westminster might provide the security, and a caddy filled with paper that was blown down the tube afterwards might provide the necessary training incentive. Possibly.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby roubaixtuesday » 23 Aug 2019, 10:47am

Tangled Metal wrote:Is there a universal measure of lifecycle pollution? You generally only see CO2 or carbon footprint used.

It might sound like I'm clutching at straws trying to make EVs come out worse. I'm not but the push to diesel on CO2 emissions seems to me to have been a big mistake by ignoring the other pollution they release.

I just think there should be some way of considering the whole pollution footprint. If there isn't one it would make an interesting research project to develop one I reckon.


Unsurprisingly, you're not the first person to think of this.

Here's an official EU report, see section 7 for conclusions. BEV = battery electric vehicle.

In this report we have shown that BEVs offer important
opportunities to reduce GHG emissions and local air
pollution. Areas where BEVs could have potential
negative impacts are, however, also identified, for
example at the raw material extraction stage and
because of the potential for a temporary rebound
effect during vehicle adoption. Furthermore, there
are also areas where there is uncertainty, for example
in terms of end-of-life processing. Reflecting this,
current and future policy levers and incentives could
be reviewed, for example in terms of the increasing
need for battery standardisation to facilitate recycling
and reuse.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/ ... e/download

jgurney
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby jgurney » 23 Aug 2019, 11:24am

atlas_shrugged wrote:the MP select group did say the public should get out of their cars.

Irresponsibly the MPs did not put forward a realistic alternative for the public to use.


Those of us who don't own cars already know what the alternatives are, we use them all the time. Motorists don't have to look far. We don't need MP's to tell us about it, just to make it work.

Oldjohnw
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Oldjohnw » 23 Aug 2019, 11:48am

jgurney wrote:
atlas_shrugged wrote:the MP select group did say the public should get out of their cars.

Irresponsibly the MPs did not put forward a realistic alternative for the public to use.


Those of us who don't own cars already know what the alternatives are, we use them all the time. Motorists don't have to look far. We don't need MP's to tell us about it, just to make it work.


We might well not need MPs to tell us what to do but we do need government to provide infrastructure and public transport. Not everyone at any and all ages is able to cycle everywhere. The tax system may also need to be used to favour public transport.
John

Cycling and recycling

jgurney
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby jgurney » 23 Aug 2019, 5:59pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
jgurney wrote:
atlas_shrugged wrote:the MP select group did say the public should get out of their cars.

Irresponsibly the MPs did not put forward a realistic alternative for the public to use.


We don't need MP's to tell us about it, just to make it work.


We might well not need MPs to tell us what to do but we do need government to provide infrastructure and public transport. ..... The tax system may also need to be used to favour public transport.


Absolutely!

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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Bmblbzzz » 25 Aug 2019, 7:51pm

Electric cars will give us much cleaner air than we currently have, particularly in cities but also near motorways and similar fast roads. This holds even when the electricity is 100% from coal. What they won't do a great deal for is global warming and what they will do nothing for is the social degradation caused by excessive personal motor transport. In fact they will probably worsen this by making motor transport much cheaper.

Carlton green
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Re: MPs say people will have to get out of their cars

Postby Carlton green » 25 Aug 2019, 8:02pm

warrendavies wrote:All the committee's recommendations make sense. But I didn't see any mention of reducing the need to travel in the first place.

For commuting type travel, this could be done through incentives to work close to home, through planning policies and incentives for companies and public sector to de-centralise to smaller sites closer to where workers live. Also through intervention to strengthen local economies, rather than spending on making travel easier.


I haven’t read all the thread yet but this is the root of things. New houses are not built near or next to work places and they need to be, and they need to be desirable places to live too. Companies should be obliged to consider the sustainability of employee transport when they appoint people to join their company. It will not be possible or practical for all employees to live near the company, however a legal requirement for say 40% to live within say five miles (a 30 minute bike ride) would be sensible in terms of environmental transport concerns.