Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2019, 10:11am

Mike Sales wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The thing is that with pollution everyone suffers,so when you stop or at least minimise the pollution everyone benefits,rich and poor alike.


Richer people can afford to move out of the more polluted areas. Motoring enables people to live in "leafy suburbs" , or out in the country and to commute to the more polluted city, past the schools and homes of those who live in cheaper, less salubrious areas, where they add to the pollution. So the poor can benefit more from less pollution.

I agree,but even the rich spend a lot of their work time in cities and large towns.
The private car has become a burden we need to rid ourselves of where there's such large concentrations of people.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Carlton green
Posts: 186
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby Carlton green » 28 Aug 2019, 10:15am

Mike Sales wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The thing is that with pollution everyone suffers,so when you stop or at least minimise the pollution everyone benefits,rich and poor alike.


Richer people can afford to move out of the more polluted areas. Motoring enables people to live in "leafy suburbs" , or out in the country and to commute to the more polluted city, past the schools and homes of those who live in cheaper, less salubrious areas, where they add to the pollution. So the poor can benefit more from less pollution.


There should never be a need for folk to feel that they have to travel to leafy suburbs. Part of solving the transport problem is removing the need to travel. Less salubrious areas are sometimes found well away from cities, rural poverty is there but typically rarely seem.

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2019, 10:18am

Carlton green wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The thing is that with pollution everyone suffers,so when you stop or at least minimise the pollution everyone benefits,rich and poor alike.


Richer people can afford to move out of the more polluted areas. Motoring enables people to live in "leafy suburbs" , or out in the country and to commute to the more polluted city, past the schools and homes of those who live in cheaper, less salubrious areas, where they add to the pollution. So the poor can benefit more from less pollution.


There should never be a need for folk to feel that they have to travel to leafy suburbs. Part of solving the transport problem is removing the need to travel. Less salubrious areas are sometimes found well away from cities, rural poverty is there but typically rarely seem.

I can't argue with any of that.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
Pastychomper
Posts: 279
Joined: 14 Nov 2017, 11:14am
Location: Caithness

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby Pastychomper » 28 Aug 2019, 10:23am

Syd wrote:Lothian buses, which operate in and around Edinburgh, are consistently award public transport operator of the year for Scotland and provide a frequent, reliable and relatively inexpensive service.

The majority of my colleagues use the bus fir their commuting and leave the car at home.


My experience is that bus journeys become cheaper and more frequent as one approaches a city centre, and it shouldn't be too much to ask for all cities to be well-served. If the government worked intelligently* with "public" transport operators, a city-wide ICE ban needn't be a disadvantage even with current commuting levels.

*Admittedly those four words are seldom seen together in this kind of context.
Everyone's ghast should get a good flabbering now and then.
--Ole Boot

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2783
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby Bmblbzzz » 28 Aug 2019, 10:29am

Carlton green wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The thing is that with pollution everyone suffers,so when you stop or at least minimise the pollution everyone benefits,rich and poor alike.


Richer people can afford to move out of the more polluted areas. Motoring enables people to live in "leafy suburbs" , or out in the country and to commute to the more polluted city, past the schools and homes of those who live in cheaper, less salubrious areas, where they add to the pollution. So the poor can benefit more from less pollution.


There should never be a need for folk to feel that they have to travel to leafy suburbs. Part of solving the transport problem is removing the need to travel. Less salubrious areas are sometimes found well away from cities, rural poverty is there but typically rarely seem.

That might be true of the UK and possibly also of Western Europe in general. Looking at it from a worldwide perspective again, rural poverty is very much in evidence.

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2019, 1:07pm

Think of the leisure parks and green spaces that could be made out of city centre car parks :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Freddie
Posts: 2329
Joined: 12 Jan 2008, 12:01pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby Freddie » 31 Aug 2019, 2:33pm

Mike Sales wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The thing is that with pollution everyone suffers,so when you stop or at least minimise the pollution everyone benefits,rich and poor alike.
Richer people can afford to move out of the more polluted areas. Motoring enables people to live in "leafy suburbs" , or out in the country and to commute to the more polluted city, past the schools and homes of those who live in cheaper, less salubrious areas, where they add to the pollution. So the poor can benefit more from less pollution.
But even if you just reduce the number of relatively less wealthy driving, you reduce pollution, don't you. It is not particularly equitable, but it does achieve the end goal of less pollution, so does it really matter given the gravity of things in play?

DaveGos
Posts: 241
Joined: 13 Nov 2009, 12:40pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby DaveGos » 31 Aug 2019, 5:06pm

Just wished we had a clear country wide co-ordinated policy , I live in Shropshire , the council are saying they are going carbon free but at the same time they have reduced park and ride There are no plans for the only railway line to be electrified. They want to build far more houses and industrial areas than are required by the local population . There are hardly any recharging points .

I need to replace my car soon , but vehicle tax only is reduced in the first year now for low emission vehicles and there is no indication whether they would prefer us to go petrol or diesel while electric vehicles seem more expensive for what you get and I do not think the infrastructure is there to support it . If we are serious about climate change we need an effort similar to the rearmament process prior to WWII

It seems to be mainly faffing about and pretending to be green so far

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby reohn2 » 31 Aug 2019, 5:43pm

DaveGos wrote:..........It seems to be mainly faffing about and pretending to be green so far

That's my take on it too,until the powers that be begin to get radical and get everyone on board with a structured plan and PDQ nothing will happen to change anything.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

pete75
Posts: 11646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Proposal to ban petrol and diesel cars from Scottish cities

Postby pete75 » 31 Aug 2019, 7:39pm

it'd be nice to use public transport but there's little of it here in Lincolnshire. It's all private apart from LNER. Lincolnshire Roadcar, Lincoln Corporation etc public transport bus companies were all sold off to private organisations like Viscount , Stagecoach and Centrebus. Same goes for all the railway services bar LNER and that only ended up back as public transport by accident.