A Cyclist and Rough Justice

brynpoeth
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2019, 2:23pm

briansnail wrote:Firstly apologies. As pointed out this topic has been discussed at great length already. I should really have searched first. I don't think you can change the law.However a good procedural change would be for Judges to know in advance what the costs will be or likely to be claimed. I suspect in this case the Judge would be horrified at how much they had escalated
..

One imagines judges do know about the possible litigation, compensation claims &c
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Sep 2019, 2:39pm

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
brynpoeth wrote:When someone puts a foot on the zebra crossing they have priority, vehicles + cyclists must stop, right?

If you are quoting me?
YES

But what would you do if you had been me?

I'd always expect the unexpected,that approach keeps everyone safe.

That's why its called unexpected, till a cow falls on you :P
Apart from what everyone expects to be PC.

I don't see how different I could of been.
I did not swerve as I had just the time and reactions to stop.
Different conditions like dark and slippery and wet, rider wet and cold, you just adjust to your surroundings.
The pub is just the other side of Zebra :mrgreen:
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Syd
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby Syd » 7 Sep 2019, 2:43pm

kwackers wrote:
Syd wrote:A green traffic light is a completely separate entity to a zebra crossing and should be treated as such,

Green means go - "if your way is clear".
Further; "if a pedestrian has 'started to cross' a road, they have right of way"

So basically under any circumstance if there's a pedestrian in the road they have right of way regardless. Green light or no, zebra crossing or no.

It's not a hard concept to get one's head around, there's a pedestrian in front of you what are you expecting them to do?
Why not let them cross? The law requires it anyway.

Being a pedestrian these days is hard enough, cars parked on pavements, bicycles using pavements, traffic lights that don't care if it takes you five minutes to cross a junction and other road users that don't understand or think they need to obey the HC.
No need to make it harder.

Not sure why you have quoted my post in a lecture on traffic lights and road etiquette.

I agree with your post and have not indicated otherwise.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Sep 2019, 2:55pm

Hi,
Sorry I edited my post on page 2.
With advisories from Highway code pedestrians.
Forgot to press submit :oops:
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kwackers
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby kwackers » 7 Sep 2019, 3:12pm

Syd wrote:Not sure why you have quoted my post in a lecture on traffic lights and road etiquette.

I agree with your post and have not indicated otherwise.

Apologies if it came across as a disagreement, it was more a general comment on the subject in general.
I quoted your post because I was leading on from that rather than disagreeing.

Such things don't always come across as one intends...

LollyKat
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby LollyKat » 7 Sep 2019, 4:14pm

Image

Actually the advice is contradictory and unhelpful:
Give traffic plenty of time to see you and stop before you start to cross.
Wait until traffic has stopped....
...traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing


At that rate a pedestrian would never get across! There is a zebra near my daughter's in Walthamstow which is generally observed but with reluctance - it can be a game of chicken.

kwackers
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby kwackers » 7 Sep 2019, 4:26pm

LollyKat wrote:At that rate a pedestrian would never get across! There is a zebra near my daughter's in Walthamstow which is generally observed but with reluctance - it can be a game of chicken.

They're a mixed bag, some seem pretty good as in you only have to look like you might want to cross and people will stop.
With others you're lucky if they stop even if you're walking across them.

Same country, same drivers. Wonder what's different...

reohn2
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby reohn2 » 7 Sep 2019, 4:28pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,

If you are quoting me?
YES

But what would you do if you had been me?

I'd always expect the unexpected,that approach keeps everyone safe.

That's why its called unexpected, till a cow falls on you :P

:wink:
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Pete Owens
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby Pete Owens » 9 Sep 2019, 5:23pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
I stopped.........just.
Did nothing wrong at all.

They appeared from nowhere at a brisk pace.

When vehicle users start complaining about the speed of pedestrians this is a sure sign that they themselves where approaching at an excessive speed.
I would do the same again tomorrow.

I would say they never saw me / did but moved onto crossing because they could.
Buy no body knows what was in there mind walking across a road without looking.

Blame me for being so careful as to avoid a collision, like I always do.

What would anyone do?

You could try reading the the highway code as it applies to you:
Highway Code Rule 195 wrote:Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing

look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
do not wave or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.


I started to brake when i realised they were going to cross even before they hit the zebra.

It seems it took you rather too long to realise that people walking purposely towards a zebra crossing were indeed intending to cross. You then expect us to give you credit for performing an emergency stop to avoid a collision that would have been entirely your fault.
What more could anyone do?
Not only did they do nothing to assess the situation but they appeared from behind a hedge, walked across a path, walked across a cycle path

So far from your initial excuse that they appeared from nowhere they were in clear view approaching the crossing for a significant distance - and obviously intending to cross. This gave you plenty of time for you to stop well in time

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 9 Sep 2019, 5:57pm

Hi,
Highway Code-
"Rule 19

Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The pedestrian did none of the above (my bold)
That was the point I was trying to make.

I Stopped..........................He did nothing at all apart from act as if I was not there :twisted:
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Cunobelin
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Sep 2019, 7:00pm

briansnail wrote:Firstly apologies. As pointed out this topic has been discussed at great length already. I should really have searched first. I don't think you can change the law.However a good procedural change would be for Judges to know in advance what the costs will be or likely to be claimed. I suspect in this case the Judge would be horrified at how much they had escalated. My irate post was prompted when driving last week.A pedestrian on a mobile phone walked in front of my car on a green light. It was a totally unrelated incident but had similarities to this older incident. Fortunately years of cycling develops a caution and I had slowed down and did not injure him.



Why should a Judge need to know anything at all?

They will judge on the facts.

Compensation is an irrelevance to an offence

Unless it is a case of

Judge: What is the compensation?

Advocate: £50,000

Judge: Too much - I find him not guilty

Advocate: £25,000

Judge: Nope still too much, not Guilty

Advocate: £10,000?

Judge - Ok than _ I find him Guilty!

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andrew_s
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby andrew_s » 9 Sep 2019, 11:36pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The pedestrian did none of the above (my bold)

It appears to me that your bold and my bold red are incompatible, and following just yours leaves the pedestrian waiting until there are no cars, just the same as if there was no crossing.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 10 Sep 2019, 12:49am

Hi,
andrew_s wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The pedestrian did none of the above (my bold)

It appears to me that your bold and my bold red are incompatible, and following just yours leaves the pedestrian waiting until there are no cars, just the same as if there was no crossing.

Its not my words but that of the Highway Code.
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brynpoeth
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby brynpoeth » 10 Sep 2019, 1:36am

Never trust a morton
Are they not supposed to S.T.O.P., apply the handbrake, wait until the PoF is right over?
Never trust a morton
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Tangled Metal
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Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby Tangled Metal » 10 Sep 2019, 8:24am

"Always expect the unexpected!"

One mate of mine could have done with that ability. Still one time he hit a cow round a bend on a dual carriageway. It somehow got out if the field and ran straight in front of him. That can't ever be expected.

Another time after a long spell not driving and a very gradual reintroduction to driving he got hit from the side by a bus. Predict that if you can!

With this guy anything can happen. He's just very unlucky when driving. Last I heard he gave up driving again and rides his bike everywhere. I hope he's still ok with his superpower for encountering the unpredictable on the roads.

If course a ped on a phone at a junction or other lights is probably more predictable. Just remember sh1t happens. It could still be you getting used for damages.