A Cyclist and Rough Justice

DaveReading
Posts: 69
Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 5:37pm

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby DaveReading » 7 Sep 2019, 7:35am

Redvee wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Does this relate to a real situation that we can read about?


Rings a bell with this case, only one I'm aware of recently.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ion-london

That incident didn't involve a zebra crossing AFAIK.

brynpoeth
Posts: 11439
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2019, 7:50am

Hope the OP comes by again soon to enlighten us
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "597"

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 9561
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby Cunobelin » 7 Sep 2019, 8:59am

I doubt it, these were not the responses hoped for.

brynpoeth
Posts: 11439
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2019, 9:54am

Cunobelin wrote:I doubt it, these were not the responses hoped for.

-1?
Sledging?
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "597"

kwackers
Posts: 13850
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby kwackers » 7 Sep 2019, 10:31am

Syd wrote:A green traffic light is a completely separate entity to a zebra crossing and should be treated as such,

Green means go - "if your way is clear".
Further; "if a pedestrian has 'started to cross' a road, they have right of way"

So basically under any circumstance if there's a pedestrian in the road they have right of way regardless. Green light or no, zebra crossing or no.

It's not a hard concept to get one's head around, there's a pedestrian in front of you what are you expecting them to do?
Why not let them cross? The law requires it anyway.

Being a pedestrian these days is hard enough, cars parked on pavements, bicycles using pavements, traffic lights that don't care if it takes you five minutes to cross a junction and other road users that don't understand or think they need to obey the HC.
No need to make it harder.

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 10773
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Sep 2019, 11:20am

Hi,
That could of been me.
I approached a zebra crossing at bottom of hill.
Moving at speed but nice wide road and pavements wide too, straight almost dual-carriage way width for over 100 metres.
Traffic lights have been removed, 20 mph limit in place.
As I approach crossing person walks briskly into view on left pavement from junction.
And walked straight onto crossing without looking at all.
I repeat the payments are three to four times a normal width pavement (uk), the whole road has been relaid with nice wide (for uk) pavements and cycle lanes in gutter but wide, traffic calming too.
I was in road say 30 % of whole road both lanes from left, not close to kerb.

What happed next was typical of those idiots who do not remember hi way code advise.

Look and Listen!
Walk straight across, (not at an angle back to traffic :evil: )

As we know they don't look if all is quiet.
I shouted and braked.
The person continued to walk across without looking or commenting at me as if I was not even there.........
I anticipated they might react and dodge either way or stop, so I concentrated on stopping.

Some will say I was going to fast.
I am very conscious at looking on quite roads when I am on foot always but others I see almost every bike ride do not.

My defence if a collision had happened would be that they failed to look stop or take evasive action even when I shouted at them.
And in today's life I am sure I would be screwed.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

brynpoeth
Posts: 11439
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2019, 11:23am

When someone puts a foot on the zebra crossing they have priority, vehicles + cyclists must stop, right?
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "597"

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 10773
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Sep 2019, 11:45am

Hi,
brynpoeth wrote:When someone puts a foot on the zebra crossing they have priority, vehicles + cyclists must stop, right?

If you are quoting me?
YES

But what would you do if you had been me?
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

kwackers
Posts: 13850
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby kwackers » 7 Sep 2019, 12:05pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:My defence if a collision had happened would be that they failed to look stop or take evasive action even when I shouted at them.

If I was a juror and you stood in front of me and proclaimed that you'd be on the back foot immediately.

I'd want to know if they simply stepped out why if you were so close to the crossing you couldn't simply go past in front of them?
If you weren't that close how come you weren't able to stop?
And finally whether you were aware of the pedestrian approaching the crossing and whether you considered that they might step onto it and if so what you did differently to mitigate the risk.

Gotta remember pedestrians don't have to be compos mentis. They could be suffering from dementia, have poor vision and hearing, have a brain injury etc etc.
They need protecting and like it or not as a road user your duty is more than simply insisting on your "right of way" (not that you have right of way).

That's not to say I wouldn't have some sympathy with your position but claiming they didn't take evasive action when you shouted would immediately get my hackles up. ;)

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 10773
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Sep 2019, 1:25pm

Hi,
I stopped.........just.
Did nothing wrong at all.

They appeared from nowhere at a brisk pace.

I would do the same again tomorrow.

I would say they never saw me / did but moved onto crossing because they could.
Buy no body knows what was in there mind walking across a road without looking.

Blame me for being so careful as to avoid a collision, like I always do.

What would anyone do?
EAB80A2C-4986-4085-A78E-9917E2ACC8E1.png


I did everything he did nothing laid down as above, image.
I started to brake when i realised they were going to cross even before they hit the zebra.
What more could anyone do?
Not only did they do nothing to assess the situation but they appeared from behind a hedge, walked across a path, walked across a cycle path on paving Shared albeit, them walked onto zebra with no caution at all.
Image Attachments
D41979F3-CE6C-438E-B2FD-57AFE723A34B.png
F17C3861-377C-408E-B695-52F9948F5A37.png
Last edited by NATURAL ANKLING on 7 Sep 2019, 2:57pm, edited 2 times in total.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 9561
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby Cunobelin » 7 Sep 2019, 1:51pm

There are defined rules

When I am on a road and a road joins from the left I expect drivers to obey the markings and rules, stop and let me pass

However if it is a BMW or AUDI, then my expectations change, it is a 60-80%?chance they will stop and a 20-40% chance they will try and force their way out, I approach differently


You have to be aware and adapt your speed, intentions and reactions to suit

brynpoeth
Posts: 11439
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2019, 1:59pm

I was on a main road in a jam, a nasty a**i wanted to join, I refused to let it
After, I asked myself why I was uncooperative, what if the driver had had a gun, in any case I would prefer her* in front of me

* it was a he of course but I try to use pc language :wink:
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "597"

brynpoeth
Posts: 11439
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2019, 2:03pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
brynpoeth wrote:When someone puts a foot on the zebra crossing they have priority, vehicles + cyclists must stop, right?

If you are quoting me?
YES

But what would you do if you had been me?

Cycling and driving I am very careful and slow, 'too slow' is problematic for cyclards and moturds as noted elsewhere (door zone)
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "597"

briansnail
Posts: 36
Joined: 1 Sep 2019, 3:07pm

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby briansnail » 7 Sep 2019, 2:16pm

Firstly apologies. As pointed out this topic has been discussed at great length already. I should really have searched first. I don't think you can change the law.However a good procedural change would be for Judges to know in advance what the costs will be or likely to be claimed. I suspect in this case the Judge would be horrified at how much they had escalated. My irate post was prompted when driving last week.A pedestrian on a mobile phone walked in front of my car on a green light. It was a totally unrelated incident but had similarities to this older incident. Fortunately years of cycling develops a caution and I had slowed down and did not injure him.

reohn2
Posts: 36774
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: A Cyclist and Rough Justice

Postby reohn2 » 7 Sep 2019, 2:17pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
brynpoeth wrote:When someone puts a foot on the zebra crossing they have priority, vehicles + cyclists must stop, right?

If you are quoting me?
YES

But what would you do if you had been me?

I'd always expect the unexpected,that approach keeps everyone safe.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.