Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article


merseymouth
Posts: 1116
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby merseymouth » 4 Oct 2019, 8:30am

Hi all, And what this cycling pedestrian would like others to know is that Drivers have not got a monopoly of road use, indeed they are there by conditional licence, obey laws.
People who cycle on pavements should desist from doing so!In law it is even illegal for children to do so, but we must surely tolerate that.
So if you want to travel by mechanical means, either motor or pedal, learn the rules , respect them, get trained up.
Assertive positioning YES, aggressive positioning NO!
Training breeds confidence, that breeds safety.
If you are in the wrong accept the fact and learn from it. MM

brynpoeth
Posts: 11276
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby brynpoeth » 4 Oct 2019, 8:52am

More than half of mortons think cyclists are not completely human
The study was done in Australia, but.. :?

I am too ** scared to cycle on the road
I cycle slowly on wide pavements where almost nobody walks, dinnae go much above walking speed either
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Carlton green
Posts: 276
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby Carlton green » 4 Oct 2019, 9:36am

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, And what this cycling pedestrian would like others to know is that Drivers have not got a monopoly of road use, indeed they are there by conditional licence, obey laws.
People who cycle on pavements should desist from doing so!In law it is even illegal for children to do so, but we must surely tolerate that.
So if you want to travel by mechanical means, either motor or pedal, learn the rules , respect them, get trained up.
Assertive positioning YES, aggressive positioning NO!
Training breeds confidence, that breeds safety.
If you are in the wrong accept the fact and learn from it. MM


That’s one of the most well balanced comments I’ve read on this forum on the behaviour of cyclists. I would also say that the Swinton article is worth reading and thoughts of bias should be put to one side, or at least tempered.

The attack on Lord or Prof Winston is completely unacceptable and the only possible mitigation for it is the particularly high danger that some cyclists face on the road. I would say to Prof Winston that registration numbers aren’t a reliable to solution to the issue that he faced and will do more harm than good. The assault he suffered could have been delivered by a pedestrian and they would have been unidentifiable later too, so to make a distinction between cyclists and pedestrians for what was an fundamentally an assault is without merit (pointless).

The aggression felt between some cyclists and some car drivers has got to stop. IMHO the way forward on this is the phased introduction of compulsory cycle training (practical and theory) as an integral part of the route towards obtaining a vehicle driving licence. So, just like one has to pass the Highway Code Test to progress one would have to take the Cycling Theory and Practical Test too - note, not and never a license but simply a test within a larger package of training. I wonder how that idea might be fed forward to Cycling UK and how they might be encouraged to champion it.

Edit. I would add to the above that those drivers who receive points on their licence should have, as part of the the points removal process, compulsory re-education (theory and practical) on transporting themselves using the means of walking and cycling in local town or city areas.

ROSPA’s logo seems very valid to me ... ‘accidents don’t need to happen’.
https://www.rospa.com/About
Last edited by Carlton green on 4 Oct 2019, 12:36pm, edited 4 times in total.

reohn2
Posts: 36363
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby reohn2 » 4 Oct 2019, 9:50am

Over the past 15 years or so I've witnessed a growing antagonism toward cycling,it seemingly comes from anyone who doesn't cycle themselves and mostly from motorists willing to use their vehicle to bully cyclists because IME they believe either cyclist shouldn't be on the road or that cyclists should simply get out of the motorists way because they're a lesser being on the road,the might is right syndrome.
There's a similar attitude from pedestrians,possibly because they're also motorists.
Similarly so from cyclists toward both pedestrians and motorists.
I stress,this attitude comes from a minority of people who have the erroneous belief that the world revolves around them,they being the centre and all else peripheral.But IMO the attitude is on the increase and the vehemence and vitriol more aggressive when encountered.

I believe it's a growing social problem,possibly stoked by social media,IMO the anger has increased in intensity since the whole Brexit debacle kicked off in the past three years.
It also seems to me that no one in authority is doing anything to reset the imbalance,the politicians in power are proving useless and morally depraved,the police however much they want to are powerless,grossly undermanned and lacking in resources to deal with the issues in hand,the CPS and judiciary are in a similar situation,lacking the teeth to deal with such complaints,and the criminal has enough loopholes to escape through should they in the unlikely event be caught and evenmore unlikely be brought to court.
TUC of this parish on another thread mentioned Micheal Mason being run over and killed whilst riding his bike legally on the road simply because the the motorist claimed they didn't see him and as a result walked away scot free.

There is something seriously wrong and unbalanced within UK society,I believe it's fostered by individualism and symptomatic of growing unease and future uncertainty within society.
If reg plates doesn't fix motoring crime which is ridiculously apparent and endemic for anyone who walks out of their front door and wittnesses what's happening around them,how will it fix bicycle crime,other than satisfy the hobby horse of one Lord Winston?

EDITED for typos and clarity
Last edited by reohn2 on 6 Oct 2019, 12:00pm, edited 3 times in total.
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I cycle therefore I am.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1956
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby Oldjohnw » 4 Oct 2019, 9:55am

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, And what this cycling pedestrian would like others to know is that Drivers have not got a monopoly of road use, indeed they are there by conditional licence, obey laws.
People who cycle on pavements should desist from doing so!In law it is even illegal for children to do so, but we must surely tolerate that.
So if you want to travel by mechanical means, either motor or pedal, learn the rules , respect them, get trained up.
Assertive positioning YES, aggressive positioning NO!
Training breeds confidence, that breeds safety.
If you are in the wrong accept the fact and learn from it. MM


Well said. Wise and coherent. Thank you.
John

Cycling and recycling

reohn2
Posts: 36363
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby reohn2 » 4 Oct 2019, 10:13am

Justnto add that I too agree with MM,spot on IMO.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Pete Owens
Posts: 1562
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby Pete Owens » 4 Oct 2019, 1:08pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, And what this cycling pedestrian would like others to know is that Drivers have not got a monopoly of road use, indeed they are there by conditional licence, obey laws.
People who cycle on pavements should desist from doing so!In law it is even illegal for children to do so, but we must surely tolerate that.
So if you want to travel by mechanical means, either motor or pedal, learn the rules , respect them, get trained up.
Assertive positioning YES, aggressive positioning NO!
Training breeds confidence, that breeds safety.
If you are in the wrong accept the fact and learn from it. MM

^ THIS ^

whoof
Posts: 1923
Joined: 29 Apr 2014, 2:13pm

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby whoof » 4 Oct 2019, 2:37pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, And what this cycling pedestrian would like others to know is that Drivers have not got a monopoly of road use, indeed they are there by conditional licence, obey laws.
People who cycle on pavements should desist from doing so!In law it is even illegal for children to do so, but we must surely tolerate that.
So if you want to travel by mechanical means, either motor or pedal, learn the rules , respect them, get trained up.
Assertive positioning YES, aggressive positioning NO!
Training breeds confidence, that breeds safety.
If you are in the wrong accept the fact and learn from it. MM


I also agree with this.

However, there is one problem and that is the majority of people have been conditioned and as a result are selectively blind.
In the past I have used a 'riddle' as an analogy. Briefly it's a man is driving his son to school and crashes his car. He's killed and taken to the hospital morgue, the son is seriously injured and taken to the same hospital and has to go for emergency surgery. The surgeon pulls back the cover ready to operate and then says "I can't, he's my son". How can this be?
I've had answers of twins, adopted, test tube babies, dopplegangers and my favorite the man is actually in a comatose stated wakes up on the slab and runs upstairs to start his shift as a surgeon. The actual answer is the surgeon is the boy's Mother.
No one is unaware that children are the result of an interaction of a man and woman and one is the Father and the other the Mother. They also all know that women can be doctors. But from a young age children are conditioned, anyone played doctors and nurses where the girls are doctors and the boys nurses?
WRT transport everyone can see the cyclist running the red light or riding on the pavement and knows this is against the rules but because 'everyone' speeds and, well you need to park somewhere they don't observe the same of speeding motorists and people parking and therefore driving on the pavement.
Much of this biase may be unconcious but it happens all the same.
An example
The headline of this story is 'Man who died whilst walking on A38 near M5 named'. Died whilst walking, of a heart attack perhaps? He was struck by a motor vehicle. Can you imagine a pedestrian being hit by someone cycling and the headline being 'Man died whilst walking...'?
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... th-3383736

brooksby
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Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:02am
Location: Bristol

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby brooksby » 4 Oct 2019, 2:59pm

whoof wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hi all, And what this cycling pedestrian would like others to know is that Drivers have not got a monopoly of road use, indeed they are there by conditional licence, obey laws.
People who cycle on pavements should desist from doing so!In law it is even illegal for children to do so, but we must surely tolerate that.
So if you want to travel by mechanical means, either motor or pedal, learn the rules , respect them, get trained up.
Assertive positioning YES, aggressive positioning NO!
Training breeds confidence, that breeds safety.
If you are in the wrong accept the fact and learn from it. MM


I also agree with this.

However, there is one problem and that is the majority of people have been conditioned and as a result are selectively blind.
In the past I have used a 'riddle' as an analogy. Briefly it's a man is driving his son to school and crashes his car. He's killed and taken to the hospital morgue, the son is seriously injured and taken to the same hospital and has to go for emergency surgery. The surgeon pulls back the cover ready to operate and then says "I can't, he's my son". How can this be?
I've had answers of twins, adopted, test tube babies, dopplegangers and my favorite the man is actually in a comatose stated wakes up on the slab and runs upstairs to start his shift as a surgeon. The actual answer is the surgeon is the boy's Mother.
No one is unaware that children are the result of an interaction of a man and woman and one is the Father and the other the Mother. They also all know that women can be doctors. But from a young age children are conditioned, anyone played doctors and nurses where the girls are doctors and the boys nurses?
WRT transport everyone can see the cyclist running the red light or riding on the pavement and knows this is against the rules but because 'everyone' speeds and, well you need to park somewhere they don't observe the same of speeding motorists and people parking and therefore driving on the pavement.
Much of this biase may be unconcious but it happens all the same.
An example
The headline of this story is 'Man who died whilst walking on A38 near M5 named'. Died whilst walking, of a heart attack perhaps? He was struck by a motor vehicle. Can you imagine a pedestrian being hit by someone cycling and the headline being 'Man died whilst walking...'?
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... th-3383736


And on that story - at least the Post managed to get the important bit in there up front and centre - "The road was closed for almost six hours"

Road collisions/deaths are considered to be like the weather or acts of God, and the thing the papers think people want/need to know first is "How much will this inconvenience me and my journey?"

cycle tramp
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Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby cycle tramp » 4 Oct 2019, 9:26pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, And what this cycling pedestrian would like others to know is that Drivers have not got a monopoly of road use, indeed they are there by conditional licence, obey laws.


Well there's a piece of fine thinking that could turn any cyclist into a smudge on the road... whilst morally and lawfully cyclists have a right to use the road the 'might makes right' physical size and speed of juggernauts, buses and coaches do present something of a hazard.
I'll admit it, I'm sometimes a pavement cyclist. There's a three mile dual carriageway into my nearest town which carries alot of large speeding vehicles. Me... I'm taking the pavement which runs to the side. Being morally right is one thing but I'd rather be alive :-)
The pavement itself Carrie's very little foot traffic and if there's anyone walking along it, then I'll get off the bike, stop and wait for them to pass. It's not an issue. Is it legal, well a couple of times the police go past and I've not been stopped yet.
Sometimes there are pavements sometimes there are pavements waiting to be turned into dual use paths... it's a question of timing

MikeF
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Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby MikeF » 4 Oct 2019, 10:00pm

Motorists pass cyclists too closely, drive on the pavement, exceed the speed limit, drive through red lights, drivie recklessly, drive inconsiderately, drive dangerously, park on double yellow lines, park next to pedestrian crossings and ignore the HC. It's about time motor vehicles had registration plates. Oh, they have. :?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

tim-b
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby tim-b » 5 Oct 2019, 7:05am

Hi
Also on the Swinton website: A third of Brits regularly drive while stressed Tailgating is the greatest cause, with the weather and cyclists also getting honourable mentions
Almost every problem that I see as a pedestrian, cyclist and driver has its root in the behaviour of drivers, whether that be driving with one person in a vehicle designed to carry five or more and contributing to congestion and pollution, destroying/damaging people, vehicles and infrastructure through either collisions or road wear leading to restrictions and repairs, etc.
The cyclist slowly wending their way up a blind brow is a tiny fraction of all delays and yet drivers are often unable to get that fact, and they wouldn't behave in the same way around a horse rider, despite cyclists and horse riders appearing in the same stress top ten (link above)
Cyclists with number plates won't address the real problem, which is people (all people) and their psychology
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby Oldjohnw » 5 Oct 2019, 8:01am

I notenfrom a full page advert in the CUK mag that the same Lord Winston who campaigns against cyclists is using cyclists to raise money for a charity he founded.
John

Cycling and recycling

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Cunobelin
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Re: Number plates for cycles ? - Insurance company discussion article

Postby Cunobelin » 5 Oct 2019, 8:06am

I have an idea...

We could put them on cars first

Then if they achieve the aim and stop parking on the pavement, speeding, road rage etc we will know they will be effective and worthwhile fitting to cycles