Cycle space on trains

rotavator
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby rotavator » 9 Nov 2019, 10:26am

There is a proper guard's van (and properly cooked food) on the "Government Train" that runs between Holyhead and Cardiff which is potentially useful if you are doing Lon Las Cymru. It departs Holyhead at 05.34 and returns from Cardiff at 17.16 Mon- Fri.

griggsy
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby griggsy » 9 Nov 2019, 1:13pm

rotavator wrote:There is a proper guard's van (and properly cooked food) on the "Government Train" that runs between Holyhead and Cardiff which is potentially useful if you are doing Lon Las Cymru. It departs Holyhead at 05.34 and returns from Cardiff at 17.16 Mon- Fri.

Is that the “Gerald of Wales” service? Just googled it Government train Holyhead.

MikeF
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby MikeF » 10 Nov 2019, 7:13pm

willp01908 wrote:Came across the hanging spaces for the first time on an intercity out of Paris this year and as the article suggests, there was no way Mrs wjp was going to be able to lift her bike onto it - even stripped of luggage. A least we had a reserved pair of hooks and a seat right next to them

Generally OK where I am in the UK, at least Off Peak. Trains into London have a carriage with spaces reserved for bikes opposite the toilet :roll: and you can usually get 2 or 3 in. You`re going to have to shift them if any body gets on with a wheelchair though. Never had to do this though - I dread to think what`s it`s like for a wheelchair user on our rail "service" I suspect they avoid it.

We needed to remove all our panniers to get on here and leave enough room to pass though
20190831_092217.jpg
That's a Southern Electrostar unit not just any London bound train. The safety box or whatever it is is in a most awkward position. The seat nearest the camera on the right will lift up so there is more space as will also the seats where the person is sitting. However the newer 5 coach units have a slightly different layout and are without straps :roll: . I have written to Southern, but I don't think any change has resulted. Southern has 3 and 4 coach units, so the smaller the units of the train the more bicycle spaces there are.
South Eastern also have similar Electrostar trains on some lines.
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SteveGray
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby SteveGray » 10 Nov 2019, 7:26pm

As a matter of interest the Hitachi Azuma trains were built to a Department for Roads, sorry Transport specification.

Sadly once we get things wrong with new trains, we are stuck with them for a very long time.

Mean while the same Department for Roads, sorry Transport, plough on with their multi million new road schemes.

The Silverlink A19 double deck roundabout in North Tyneside cost £170m. Was this also skimped ?

Keep up the campaigning, with an election coming, we might get a few crumbs.

bungle73
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby bungle73 » 22 Dec 2019, 3:46pm

horizon wrote:
mjr wrote: ... because the new GWR rolling stock is some of the most regulated on the network, having been specified and backed by the DfT with some aspects allegedly against GWR's wishes (such as inability to use the kitchens to supply the catering trolley or first class at-seat service, inability to carry surfboards and other oft-requested holiday large luggage and so on).


This is what I have heard too from train staff: I rant about GWR but they just shrug their shoulders and say, it's not us, guv, it's the gov. Our focus needs to be on the DfT.


All rolling stock is procured and specced by the DfT. Provision of bike space, the hard seats that people complain about, all down the DfT. TOCs are not responsible for nearly all of what people think they are.

bungle73
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby bungle73 » 22 Dec 2019, 3:48pm

Oh, and the guard dispute rumbling on at a few TOCs, also down the DfT.

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Sweep
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby Sweep » 22 Dec 2019, 5:52pm

bungle73 wrote:Oh, and the guard dispute rumbling on at a few TOCs, also down the DfT.

Interesting - can you say more?
I had the impression, possibly ill-educated, that it was down to stubborn ToCs.
Are you saying this is some cynical case of divide and rule/good cop-bad cop?
Sweep

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mjr
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby mjr » 23 Dec 2019, 11:48am

bungle73 wrote:
horizon wrote:This is what I have heard too from train staff: I rant about GWR but they just shrug their shoulders and say, it's not us, guv, it's the gov. Our focus needs to be on the DfT.


All rolling stock is procured and specced by the DfT. Provision of bike space, the hard seats that people complain about, all down the DfT. TOCs are not responsible for nearly all of what people think they are.

Not all to the same extent, are they? The later AT300s used by LNER and TPE have some diffferent fittings, reportedly because the TOC led and only needed DfT agreement rather than the DfT leading. Same horrid bike cupboards, though.

Also, there have been some train orders reported as speculative by rolling stock leasing companies (ROSCOs) such as the penultimate batch of Electrostars (class 379).
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awavey
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby awavey » 24 Dec 2019, 12:11pm

mjr wrote:
bungle73 wrote:
horizon wrote:This is what I have heard too from train staff: I rant about GWR but they just shrug their shoulders and say, it's not us, guv, it's the gov. Our focus needs to be on the DfT.


All rolling stock is procured and specced by the DfT. Provision of bike space, the hard seats that people complain about, all down the DfT. TOCs are not responsible for nearly all of what people think they are.

Not all to the same extent, are they? The later AT300s used by LNER and TPE have some diffferent fittings, reportedly because the TOC led and only needed DfT agreement rather than the DfT leading. Same horrid bike cupboards, though.

Also, there have been some train orders reported as speculative by rolling stock leasing companies (ROSCOs) such as the penultimate batch of Electrostars (class 379).


no but the point with the Azuma trains is the DfT wrote the spec as a tender/bid document for the successful bidding train builders to follow, you can still find it online and it mentions cycle space approx once in the whole document, and its very clear about how we ended up with a broom cupboard for bikes because the whole thing was about maximising passenger seating space to increase the passenger carrying capacity of the trains.

now LNER,though they arent the LNER who were around when the spec was agreed, might well have come along and said actually we'd like a different config on these trains and the DfT have agreed that change for them.

but its not the case the DfT procures all rolling stock, Greater Anglias new trains were specced by Greater Anglia, Avantis new trains will be specced by Avanti, they might have to follow DfT rules about disability access, and certain rules laid down in the contract to run the trains, but the DfT arent picking those trains

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 24 Dec 2019, 12:12pm

Worth noting that although the "cupboards" were specified by the DfT, the allocation and booking arrangements for those cupboards were not. It's entirely GWR's decision to only use four out of the 10 bike spaces on a full-length train, for example (the rest being dedicated to luggage).
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PT1029
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby PT1029 » 24 Dec 2019, 12:31pm

Yes, the cycle spaces on GWR Hitachi trains are designed as cycle/general luggage/catering trolly spaces, the train operator then decides what to allocates the space as when the trains are configured. A friend was annoyed at the lack of cycle space on these trains, I think she had a discussion with a GWR staff member on the train.
Unforunately some unlucky Hitachi staff member (had Hitachi trains branded clothing) was on her next train journey, so she ensured the hapless Hitachi staff member got the message about cycle space allocation as well. No easy escape on a train!
I'm not sure if it was the GWR staff member or the hapless Hitachi staff member who said how the space was allocated during fitting out.

ChrisButch
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby ChrisButch » 25 Dec 2019, 5:49pm

PT1029 wrote:Yes, the cycle spaces on GWR Hitachi trains are designed as cycle/general luggage/catering trolly spaces, the train operator then decides what to allocates the space as when the trains are configured.
.
The fact that these spaces are theoretically thus allocated becomes pretty meaningless in practice, since they will be occupied by whichever of those three categories turns up first. Except that the luggage-depositor has the pick of all three, since there's no physical impediment to dumping luggage around, or even on top of an already-stored bike - or even on top of a temporarily parked catering trolley (I've seen both). The cyclist, however, can't use the theoretically available bike space even if there are only a few bits of luggage already there, and doesn't have the option of using the equivalent luggage cupboard, even if empty, because of the fitted shelving.
I plead guillty to using the bike space for luggage, since it's the only place on a new GWR train where you can put a full-length ski bag!

toontra
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby toontra » 25 Dec 2019, 6:32pm

ChrisButch wrote: The cyclist, however, can't use the theoretically available bike space even if there are only a few bits of luggage already there, and doesn't have the option of using the equivalent luggage cupboard, even if empty, because of the fitted shelving.


If I get on a GWR train with an advance-booked cycle reservation only to find the cupboard full of luggage (as happened on Monday) I simply remove all the luggage and put my bike on the inner hanger. I then try and fit the luggage around the bike - if not enough space then I'll look for floorspace in nearby racks, otherwise leave it on the vestibule floor.

As far as I'm concerned, I've gone to the effort of booking a space for my bike and that takes priority over random luggage, plus there's no-where else physically for a bike to go. If the owner or guard take exception to that then it's their problem.

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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby mjr » 25 Dec 2019, 11:43pm

ChrisButch wrote:I plead guillty to using the bike space for luggage, since it's the only place on a new GWR train where you can put a full-length ski bag!

I trust you paid the fare for luggage over 1m in any direction?
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ChrisButch
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Re: Cycle space on trains

Postby ChrisButch » 26 Dec 2019, 9:20am

mjr wrote:
ChrisButch wrote:I plead guillty to using the bike space for luggage, since it's the only place on a new GWR train where you can put a full-length ski bag!

I trust you paid the fare for luggage over 1m in any direction?

There would be mass protest if there were such a charge in Norway, where trains have a designated ski rack in every coach.