Using ANPR to deny fuel to uninsured/untaxed vehicles

[gazza_d]

One of the things I occasionally suggest as a potential quick win is to use ANPR which is installed at most garages to check vehicles on arrival and only dispense fuel to legal vehicles. Thinking being that if we make the fuel much harder to come by then it will force some off the road
Naturally it doesn;t account for cloned IDs or banned drivers, but it's a start.
Turns out it's been thought of before https://www.theguardian.com/government-computing-network/2012/mar/16/anpr-petrol-stations-uninsured-drivers
After my tweet was brought to the attention of the PCC national lead for road safety, I emailed her office. Below is the somewhat dismissive reply from here office

The use of ANPR is strictly controlled to protect the rights and freedoms of the public.

I am afraid I have been unable to establish whether the proposals suggested by Ernst and Young in the Guardian article went anywhere. I suspect that the restrictions on the use of ANPR are one reason why they did not. I am not aware of any current thinking of this type in this area.

If a petrol forecourt uses a camera recording system to identify vehicles that make-off without payment, this will ultimately assist their company’s bottom line. To use this as a means of detecting a vehicle that has no tax, insurance etc would not be of a financial benefit to the garage. However, it is conceivable a garage may wish to enter into a voluntary arrangement with the police to detect vehicles which were not insured etc if this were permitted. The unintended consequences of this approach would need thinking through. For example, if it was known a garage deployed this technology and word got around– motorists may well boycott it – losing business for the garage.

I am not an expert on such matters but I would question the legality of restricting the sale of petrol/ diesel to a motorist because their car is several days beyond its MoT renewal date.

The police already use ANPR to detect vehicles that are not compliant with road law. This includes ANPR situated in police vehicles to detect vehicles when they are out and about.
I have passed your comments through to the National Police Chiefs Council to make them aware.

Many thanks for raising this interesting point.

So that's a no. Yet we have filling stations using same ANPR to penalise drivers to stop longer than an F1 pitstop https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/nov/23/driver-fined-100-at-bp-for-taking-too-long

[mattsccm]

It would have to be compulsory otherwise why would the station bother? Couldn't not actually pump fuel without reg number as this would stop sales in cans etc.
Nice idea though

[Bonefishblues]

I have passed your comments through to the National Police Chiefs Council to make them aware.

...seems a pretty positive outcome, notwithstanding her laying out some pretty obvious issues associated with your scheme. Not sure what you were expecting?

[Mick F]

Just report them.
Pick a likely car, memorise the reg number, and check they are insured, taxed and Mot'd.
https://www.askmid.com
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

[tim-b]

Hi
It's a good plan, but it would be difficult in practice:
Foreign reg vehicles (all that the system says is that a reg isn't valid)
Company vehicle blanket insurance cover that doesn't specify a reg
Traders/mechanics, etc blanket cover
Trade plate use
etc
The fuel retailer is there to make sales and isn't equipped to deal with conflicts on their forecourts, others such as DVLA and police should enforce laws
Regards
tim-b

[mjr]

Just report them.
Pick a likely car, memorise the reg number, and check they are insured, taxed and Mot'd.
https://www.askmid.com
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

Why not make filling stations (or any other ANPR post) to take pictures of the criminals and report them with the pic to the police to send out fines in the post?

I don't think trying to deny them fuel is a great idea. They'll just fill up jerry cans or siphon fuel from lawful vehicles and then we'll have more problems with fuel thefts or fuel fires in residential areas.

[landsurfer]

The staff in my local Shell garage have ANPR.
Their there to sell fuel and stuff from the shop.
They are not Police or Security Guards who will face up to potentially violent customers demanding fuel.
Most staff in garages are not far above the minimum wage, why would they put their safety at risk for Shell !!!!

[softlips]

In Israel you pull in, someone fills it and you drive away. ANPR clocks your number and charges you.

[PDQ Mobile]

In Israel you pull in, someone fills it and you drive away. ANPR clocks your number and charges you.

Really?
And just under half the population keep a spare set (of a different number) under the seat for just that purpose.

[DaveReading]

The staff in my local Shell garage have ANPR.

What for ?

[pete75]

Just report them.
Pick a likely car, memorise the reg number, and check they are insured, taxed and Mot'd.
https://www.askmid.com
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

Why not make filling stations (or any other ANPR post) to take pictures of the criminals and report them with the pic to the police to send out fines in the post?

With attitudes like these it seems a totalitarian government here wouldn't have any problems getting some people to inform on their fellow citizens.

[mjr]

Why not make filling stations (or any other ANPR post) to take pictures of the criminals and report them with the pic to the police to send out fines in the post?

With attitudes like these it seems a totalitarian government here wouldn't have any problems getting some people to inform on their fellow citizens.

Do you also see speed and red light cameras as totalitarian government?

[Cunobelin]

The staff in my local Shell garage have ANPR.
Their there to sell fuel and stuff from the shop.
They are not Police or Security Guards who will face up to potentially violent customers demanding fuel.
Most staff in garages are not far above the minimum wage, why would they put their safety at risk for Shell !!!!

In fact, most companies have a "DO NOT Resist" policy, if there is an attempt at a robbery or there is violence/aggression, they expect the employee to hand over the money/goods

[Cunobelin]

Why not make filling stations (or any other ANPR post) to take pictures of the criminals and report them with the pic to the police to send out fines in the post?

With attitudes like these it seems a totalitarian government here wouldn't have any problems getting some people to inform on their fellow citizens.

Do you also see speed and red light cameras as totalitarian government?

I would object to Shell or BP running them

[Cunobelin]

When my brother worked in Garages in what is now Cambridgeshire (early 80's), they used to have a problem with Travellers, who would drive off without paying. A network of local garages was set up and a record kept. Garages would then inform a driver - "You drove off from Cottenham on 23rd March, once that bill is paid, we will serve you"

Three things happened...
1. They would come back mob-handed to get the fuel - in one case a full convoy of half a dozen vans whilst the attendant was blocked in the "cubicle"
2. They would come back with false plates to avoid the "List"
3. They would clone local cars so that it was locals being inconvenienced and unable to get fuel

In a few cases, the system worked, but it escalated quickly