Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

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Si
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Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Si » 30 Nov 2019, 11:46am

I'm informed by a reliable source that according to the tory manifesto, they wish to make trespass a criminal rather than civil offence. Their argument for this is that it will make it easier to remove travellers from private property.

But will this also have a detrimental effect on cyclists ? Now, there is the obvious argument that if you are not doing anything wrong then you've nothing to fear as you won't be trespassing anyway.....but back in the real world I'm aware that lots of cyclists use 'cheeky trails'.....and that this is often ignored as there isn't much the landowner can do about it. Would this change if trespass becomes a criminal offence? Remember it's not just MTBers - around town I know of a number of short cuts that avoid nasty roads and that are often used by cyclists even though they shouldn't really do so.

Storm in a tea cup or something to be worried about?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 30 Nov 2019, 12:15pm

Hi,
Yeah that stuffs my wild camping, I can just imagine finding a spot late at night And waking up to a gun Shoved in your face :evil:
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pete75
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby pete75 » 30 Nov 2019, 12:17pm

Si wrote:I'm informed by a reliable source that according to the tory manifesto, they wish to make trespass a criminal rather than civil offence. Their argument for this is that it will make it easier to remove travellers from private property.

But will this also have a detrimental effect on cyclists ? Now, there is the obvious argument that if you are not doing anything wrong then you've nothing to fear as you won't be trespassing anyway.....but back in the real world I'm aware that lots of cyclists use 'cheeky trails'.....and that this is often ignored as there isn't much the landowner can do about it. Would this change if trespass becomes a criminal offence? Remember it's not just MTBers - around town I know of a number of short cuts that avoid nasty roads and that are often used by cyclists even though they shouldn't really do so.

Storm in a tea cup or something to be worried about?


Interesting. It would mean anyone entering onto your property without your permission would be committing a criminal offence.
It appears to be aimed at the gypsy community, a group of people most potential Tory voters dislike at best.

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/20 ... nt-notice/

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Nov 2019, 12:50pm

Oh dear, sledgehammers and nuts...

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Paulatic
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Paulatic » 30 Nov 2019, 2:03pm

It is true and it is something to be very worried about. There are a lot of wealthy people out there champing at the bit to slap up a load of no access signs and wander around with a 12 bore under their arm.
It’s on a par to their proposal for servicemen never to be challenged on their behaviour in action.
It’s all under the banner of "Get Brexit Done" it’s what people voted for apparently. :(
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby pete75 » 30 Nov 2019, 2:50pm

Paulatic wrote:It is true and it is something to be very worried about. There are a lot of wealthy people out there champing at the bit to slap up a load of no access signs and wander around with a 12 bore under their arm.
It’s on a par to their proposal for servicemen never to be challenged on their behaviour in action.
It’s all under the banner of "Get Brexit Done" it’s what people voted for apparently. :(


Yep that's another one. If our servicemen are allowed to shoot POWs and do other things currently prohibited by the Geneva convention then the same will be done to our troops when they fall into enemy hands. Will Britain cease to be a signatory to the convention?

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby reohn2 » 30 Nov 2019, 2:57pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Yeah that stuffs my wild camping, I can just imagine finding a spot late at night And waking up to a gun Shoved in your face :evil:

At least you'll have your beloved brexit :D
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby RickH » 30 Nov 2019, 4:26pm

There appears to be a single mention of trespass in their manifesto (PDF, p21, their bold)

We will tackle unauthorised traveller camps. We will give the police new powers to arrest and seize the property and vehicles of trespassers who set up unauthorised encampments, in order to protect our communities. We will make intentional trespass a criminal offence, and we will also give councils greater powers within the planning system.

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby vegan dog » 30 Nov 2019, 4:35pm

RickH wrote:There appears to be a single mention of trespass in their manifesto (PDF, p21, their bold)

We will tackle unauthorised traveller camps. We will give the police new powers to arrest and seize the property and vehicles of trespassers who set up unauthorised encampments, in order to protect our communities. We will make intentional trespass a criminal offence, and we will also give councils greater powers within the planning system.


That's really bad news for wild camping. In that case, 99% of all my camping while on tour is trespass. Personally I think we should have proper right of access laws like in Scotland.

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Mike Sales » 30 Nov 2019, 4:42pm

vegan dog wrote:
That's really bad news for wild camping. In that case, 99% of all my camping while on tour is trespass. Personally I think we should have proper right of access laws like in Scotland.


I agree, or like Sweden's Allemansratten.

https://www.treehugger.com/culture/allemansratten-swedish-right-roam.html

I have done a lot of surreptitious camping too. I expect, like me, you like to find a hidden space and go undetected.

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby pete75 » 30 Nov 2019, 5:59pm

RickH wrote:There appears to be a single mention of trespass in their manifesto (PDF, p21, their bold)

We will tackle unauthorised traveller camps. We will give the police new powers to arrest and seize the property and vehicles of trespassers who set up unauthorised encampments, in order to protect our communities. We will make intentional trespass a criminal offence, and we will also give councils greater powers within the planning system.


Yes and it's stating they will make intentional trespass illegal. How many times do you think they should mention it - isn't the once sufficient?

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby whoof » 30 Nov 2019, 6:00pm

I'm sure this has been mentioned on here before.
I lived in a flat with a shared garage. Someone broke in and stole 15 bikes. When the police were called they said they would log the incident but would not be attending.
My neighbour was burgled when called the police took over 24 hours to attend. I had seen two people looking suspicious looking at the flat (I thought they had left) and told my neighbour I could give a description. When the police did attend instead of coming next door and speaking to me they waited 6 weeks to phone me and ask if one of the people were wearing a hat.

If someone wild camps and a land owner asks them to leave and they do I cannot see the police attending. Even if the land owner called the police in the unlikely chance that they were to attend and the police asked you to leave and you did then they are far too busy to take it any further.

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby pete75 » 30 Nov 2019, 6:13pm

whoof wrote:I'm sure this has been mentioned on here before.
I lived in a flat with a shared garage. Someone broke in and stole 15 bikes. When the police were called they said they would log the incident but would not be attending.
My neighbour was burgled when called the police took over 24 hours to attend. I had seen two people looking suspicious looking at the flat (I thought they had left) and told my neighbour I could give a description. When the police did attend instead of coming next door and speaking to me they waited 6 weeks to phone me and ask if one of the people were wearing a hat.

If someone wild camps and a land owner asks them to leave and they do I cannot see the police attending. Even if the land owner called the police in the unlikely chance that they were to attend and the police asked you to leave and you did then they are far too busy to take it any further.


That all depends on who the landowner is. Mentioning flats suggests you live in an urban area. Rural police have different priorities.

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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Oldjohnw » 30 Nov 2019, 6:26pm

Travellers. Not often a specific group of people appear mentioned in legislation.

First they came for the Travellers...............
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 30 Nov 2019, 7:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby whoof » 30 Nov 2019, 7:12pm

pete75 wrote:
whoof wrote:I'm sure this has been mentioned on here before.
I lived in a flat with a shared garage. Someone broke in and stole 15 bikes. When the police were called they said they would log the incident but would not be attending.
My neighbour was burgled when called the police took over 24 hours to attend. I had seen two people looking suspicious looking at the flat (I thought they had left) and told my neighbour I could give a description. When the police did attend instead of coming next door and speaking to me they waited 6 weeks to phone me and ask if one of the people were wearing a hat.


Whoof
If someone wild camps and a land owner asks them to leave and they do I cannot see the police attending. Even if the land owner called the police in the unlikely chance that they were to attend and the police asked you to leave and you did then they are far too busy to take it any further.

I come from a town in Cornwall with a population of 12000 and double that in summer. It doesn't even have a police station. I've also lived for 10 years on a farm in Devon. Nearest village didn't even have a pub or shop. There were few police stretched over a very large area and the paper work involved in an arrest and prosecution are the same regardless of where you are stationed. I

Whoof


Pete75th That all depends on who the landowner is. Mentioning flats suggests you live in an urban area. Rural police have different priorities.[/quote

Sorry using a mobile device and can't get the text in the quote to move.