Labour's plan for cycling

gazza_d
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Labour's plan for cycling

Postby gazza_d » 1 Dec 2019, 7:54am

This was announced last last night. By far the best proposals any party has published during this election
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZYi-suU32B6nSV2eAj-EjFX8--V-CcOTuVStFsLEwc/edit

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Cugel
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby Cugel » 1 Dec 2019, 9:22am

gazza_d wrote:This was announced last last night. By far the best proposals any party has published during this election
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZYi-suU32B6nSV2eAj-EjFX8--V-CcOTuVStFsLEwc/edit


Compared to the conmen (aka Tory tearaways) it is. But .....

Although its politic to avoid antagonising the great car-driving mob of loon-voters, the policy is not savage enough on motorised vehicles and their role as primary cause of making the excellent existing cycleways (aka roads) safer, both psychologically and physically. £50 billion is a lot of money and to my mind it will be wasted on new cycle paths when there would be a far better return if the money were spent on policing motorised mayhem, to not just encourage cycling on the existing roads (that go everywhere cyclists want to go, unlike cycle paths) but to also reduce the many, many other harms that motorised traffic currently does.

Some will argue (as does the Labour policy) that encouraging cycling will reduce car use. I feel that this is unlikely. People love their cars for all sorts of reasons that can't necessarily be satisfied by cycling. If anything, encouraging the more caring folk on to bikes will just leave more road-room for the uncaring sort to roar about more.

Cugel

reohn2
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby reohn2 » 1 Dec 2019, 9:44am

All sounds very good,but if Labour only carry out half of what they are claiming in that announcement it'll be four times more than what the Tories have done for active travel in the past decade they've been in government.
The Tories have failed miserably on cycling walking and public transport,they have barely made a dent in the pollution from private cars in UK towns and cities,and IMHO have no intention of doing much to alter the status quo in future.
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I cycle therefore I am.

PH
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby PH » 1 Dec 2019, 9:45am

There is an affiliated Labour group that has been trying to influence policy for the last couple of years, the party has been receptive. I went to the inaugural meeting a couple of years ago, though apart from paying my subs haven't been involved since.
https://labourcycles.org/

So,this isn't something cobbled together in an attempt to gain a few votes, if elected it will be a serious part of transport policy and if you look through the range of people advising, the best informed.

cotswolds
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby cotswolds » 1 Dec 2019, 1:43pm

In case it makes the slightest difference to anyone's vote, interesting comparison of party policies here.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2019/dec/01/which-partys-general-election-pledges-are-best-for-cyclists#comment-136049200

Brexit party apparently claiming
cyclists “as a group are massively in support of Brexit” and were “harassed and excessively regulated” by the EU

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby Phil Fouracre » 1 Dec 2019, 4:20pm

Last Brexit party comment I heard, was that all cyclists should be shot! Perhaps they’ve changed their minds:-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

atoz
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby atoz » 5 Dec 2019, 10:55pm

It would be nice to believe this might come to pass. I have my doubts. Mind you, I have been wrong on several occasions about Jeremy Corbyn:

1. I never believed he stood a chance of becoming Labour leader
2. I thought he wouldn't survive the attempted coup by the PLP
3. I was sceptical about him managing to be re-elected party leader.
4. Like most people, I never foresaw the 2017 election result.

Had I gone to the bookies and placed bets on these things happening, I could have retired by now. Based on my terrible history as a political pundit, there could be a Labour majority of at least 100 at the end of next week- and if you believe that, you believe anything- lol.

Jez has played Santa Claus in the past. I have learned to my cost never to underestimate the bearded one. Maybe Christmas will come early- and all my Christmas dreams will come true- ho ho.

Seasons greetings to one and all.

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Spinners
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby Spinners » 6 Dec 2019, 7:02am

Overall a good plan. Keep it on ice for five years.
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PBP Ancien (2007)

Tangled Metal
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby Tangled Metal » 6 Dec 2019, 8:30am

Overall a plan that'll never be implemented even when labour get into power. Cycling is so far down the list of priorities for any party even the greens I reckon.

As ever, these extras in an election time are about trying to squeeze that little bit extra support out of the electorate.

Sorry if I'm being too negative.

pwa
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby pwa » 6 Dec 2019, 8:37am

Tangled Metal wrote:Overall a plan that'll never be implemented even when labour get into power. Cycling is so far down the list of priorities for any party even the greens I reckon.

As ever, these extras in an election time are about trying to squeeze that little bit extra support out of the electorate.

Sorry if I'm being too negative.

Don't be too pessimistic. In the town nearest to me for the past two years there has been steady work going on making wide shared use paths alongside major dual carriageways. They are not going to be paths you would use to enjoy a nice ride on a day off work but they are certainly useful for getting about if you live nearby.

This verge now has a wide shared use path along it. Not open yet as the finishing touches are being done. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5210166 ... 2?hl=en-GB

Tangled Metal
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby Tangled Metal » 6 Dec 2019, 10:24am

It's very localised. AFAIK labour's plan is a national one. I'm very pessimistic about national plans but well aware of pockets of excellence. Here in Lancaster/ morecambe area there's pockets of excellence. Green way from morecambe, the millennium path from past Canton through Lancaster to glasson dock.

Then there's the pockets in north east England. Stockton, middlesborough and around there. Near main roads but completely separated. Quiet routes along old rail lines between housing with wide, tarmac mixed use paths. Some are wide enough to let two cars pass should it ever be turned into a road. :wink:

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Cugel
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby Cugel » 6 Dec 2019, 12:07pm

Tangled Metal wrote:It's very localised. AFAIK labour's plan is a national one. I'm very pessimistic about national plans but well aware of pockets of excellence. Here in Lancaster/ morecambe area there's pockets of excellence. Green way from morecambe, the millennium path from past Canton through Lancaster to glasson dock.

Then there's the pockets in north east England. Stockton, middlesborough and around there. Near main roads but completely separated. Quiet routes along old rail lines between housing with wide, tarmac mixed use paths. Some are wide enough to let two cars pass should it ever be turned into a road. :wink:


I know those Morecambe/Lancaster/Caton shared-use paths well. I disagree that they are anywhere near the status "excellent". Maybe "adequate" at best; and only in parts.

As ever, the problem is the shared aspect. It isn't a problem so much where the footfalls and tyre-runs are relatively small. In the more crowded areas there are constant problems: rude speeding cyclists and pedestrians either uncaring of others (everyone, not just cyclists) or deliberately obstructive (probably because of past run-ins with speeding loons on bikes).

In terms of hard facts: I know 4 cyclists who have come off on those shared paths and suffered injury, with the worst being a broken hip. The cyclist injuries were got during attempts to avoid collisions. They were going too fast and were unheeding; the peds were lurching about as peds do. Two involved excited children playing. Of the same group of cyclists I know, there are only two who have had injury-inducing incidents on the road, neither with a car but with potholes. (I'm not counting race injuries). I do know of another (broken hip) who was knocked off by another cyclist, on a Spanish road. Count that if you like.

Cugel

PS Yesterday I cycled down the shared path alongside Afon Teifi through the wetlands into Cardigan. I stopped four time for four conversations with various peds (and dogs). These were pleasant interludes on a 30 mile hilly ride in mild temperatures and winter sun, along many nice back lanes bereft of the car. Later in the ride I cycled 2 miles along the shared path alongside the main coast road from Blaenannerch to Blaenporth without seeing a single other cyclist or a pedestrian. I mention all this to make you envious. :-)

Tangled Metal
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby Tangled Metal » 6 Dec 2019, 12:34pm

Well you're right about mixed use paths but within that constraint there's a decent width on most of them such that they're fully useable and generally I've not seen much conflict between different user types.

There are a few constructions such as millennium bridge area where a cyclist really has to slow down but most of those paths are wide enough for mixed use. If not excellent they're certainly more than just serviceable. YMMV.

brynpoeth
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby brynpoeth » 6 Dec 2019, 6:42pm

Feeling very envious of Cugel :wink:
Moving somewhere quiet myself soon, where there are few cyclists, except in summer

That is the solution, if one can thoyle it
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Labour's plan for cycling

Postby The utility cyclist » 6 Dec 2019, 8:03pm

Why bother when the problem is that planners get involved that are clueless and the main issue is that there's the perpetual push for segregated infra which is simply not the solution to increasing cycling on any significant level whilst not improving safety massively also!

Already new and highly publicised infra allows motorists to still get three/four times the amount of space, so lanes are too narrow, not even close to allowing mass cycling, not joined up so the usual stop start crud that also means criss crossing motor traffic all of which is not remotely appealing to parents with kids or kids on their own to use because there's still huge risks involved.
Have a look at the recent Bristol infra, there's a cyclist who posted up a video highlighting how crud it is, travelling less than a couple of miles takes 2.5x longer and makes numerous crossings of the road where you are at the mercy of RLJ motorists, if people think that is remotely acceptable then they're bonkers!
Narrow lanes are rubbish because how do faster commuters safely get around parents with children or two school kids cycling side by side who would every right to cycle like that? Slow down you say, then it's not fot for purpose is it, what commuter cyclists wan't to slow down every few metres on segregated and wait for a gap, that's exactly why the current rubbish isn't appealing to many road cyclists, if it's not at least 2.5m wide for a single direction it's not worth bothering, and if we want bi-directional then why not simply shut down one side of the road on the netweork anyway.
Little costs, goes to all places, lower conflict points, wider space so that all cycling types can travel safely and at a speed they want to with massively fewer issues and also shuts down roads to motorists making them have to change.

£7Bn will be piddled down the drain on inadequate 'solutions', well it will be a quarter of that after taking the walking money and legal/admin out of the funding. And when all that money has been spent and it's still carp, the calls to get off the road will be ever louder and cause more consternation and threats.
Meh :|