Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

reohn2
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Re: Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

Postby reohn2 » 6 Feb 2020, 6:19pm

fullupandslowingdown wrote:so, if scooters do become road legal subject to perhaps a 15mph limit, how about getting the maximum assisted speed for electric bikes raised to 25mph. any thoughts? In the same way that the illegal use of CBs in the UK eventually led to them being legalised, albeit in a slightly different format to the ones used and imported from the usa etc, we all know of cyclists who have electric bikes capable of trashing the legal speed, whether by design or by tampering. Legalise and control through sensible proportionate licensing.

Personally I think 20mph should be the limit for e-assisted cycles unregistered,over which some form of licencing is needed with 30mph being the next level needing some form of reg plate and third party insurance
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mjr
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Re: Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 6:34pm

reohn2 wrote:IMO the problem isn't e-scooters,e-bikes or bikes at all,but the sheer lack of forethought by the public and authotities on what future town and city centre travel should be like.

There's plenty of forethought: it's stuff like declaring "cars are essential" at the outset and then everything becomes an exercise in stuffing more cars into streets last rebuilt for horse and carriage. I agree with you that "things can't carry on as they are but almost no one's making any real serious progress for change AFAICS" - the change will be forced upon them as the logical result of trying to give every person their own 4m x 3m car-sized space (plus the stopping distance in front of it) is gridlock - no matter whether those cars are powered by dead dino juice or batteries - and I really really hope that no-one still wants to try 1960s-scale demolitions of town centres to build bigger roads.

The way to get the most people through a small town crossroads is by foot or bikes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-L-B1aH8AE
Last edited by mjr on 6 Feb 2020, 6:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fastpedaller
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Re: Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

Postby fastpedaller » 6 Feb 2020, 6:34pm

I'd be cautious about folks who maybe aren't used to cycling going round bends at 20mph regardless of conditions

reohn2
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Re: Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

Postby reohn2 » 6 Feb 2020, 6:52pm

fastpedaller wrote:I'd be cautious about folks who maybe aren't used to cycling going round bends at 20mph regardless of conditions

But people can do that now on unassisted bicycles.
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Nigel
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Re: Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

Postby Nigel » 6 Feb 2020, 6:53pm

fullupandslowingdown wrote:so, if scooters do become road legal subject to perhaps a 15mph limit, how about getting the maximum assisted speed for electric bikes raised to 25mph. any thoughts? In the same way that the illegal use of CBs in the UK eventually led to them being legalised, albeit in a slightly different format to the ones used and imported from the usa etc, we all know of cyclists who have electric bikes capable of trashing the legal speed, whether by design or by tampering. Legalise and control through sensible proportionate licensing.


I'd say "stick with the current 15mph". Its fast enough for most cycling. I know plenty of regular cyclists who can't hold 15mph for an extended time on level ground on human driven machines. The machine category is for cycling, not "racing on the highway". The current requirements have some maximum weights and power outputs, and that's it. There is no long term requirement to properly service the machine, ensure the brakes work, etc., except by means of prosecution for riding recklessly after a serious accident.

Any quicker and one should be into licensing, MOT tests, etc.. which make them a motor vehicle. Whether one would like a new category of "electric moped" or similar, with appropriate regulations, is an open question in my mind.


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Re: Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

Postby PH » 6 Feb 2020, 7:19pm

reohn2 wrote:
fastpedaller wrote:I'd be cautious about folks who maybe aren't used to cycling going round bends at 20mph regardless of conditions

But people can do that now on unassisted bicycles.

Not many, certainly isn’t the norm. I can’t keep up with good quality legal E-bikes and if I’m passed on the cycle paths I use every day 9 times out of 10 it’s by an E-bike. IMO the current limit is about right for mixing with unassisted bikes.

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Re: Dangerous cycling bill introduced to HoL with e-bike and e-scooter inclusion

Postby niggle » 14 Feb 2020, 10:29am

I agree re the ebike speed restriction of 25kmh (15.5mph) being about right, you wouldn't want quicker bikes mixing with pedestrians on shared use paths. (Not much you can do about too fast riding of unassisted bikes other than prosecute when they endanger or harm others.)

A couple of weeks ago on my legal ebike with panniers stuffed with shopping I was passed by a bunch of roadies on the flat (who greeted me cheerily at that point) then shortly after I passed them going up hill (got a couple of black looks then), then through town they caught me at a red light (but were not looking at me, just staring dead ahead). Then when the light went green for a moment, just for fun, I added strong pedalling to full motor power and accelerated away quicker than the guy who was trying to show me who was boss, but then relented and they passed me again, a couple of them quite close. I was enjoying it all and laughing but they seemed to have no sense of humour. Our routes diverged at that point and I was glad as in their direction there was a big dip ahead with a steep climb after, where I would undoubtedly have passed them again with ease, and I hate to think how they would have reacted to that.

My main point is that it seems about the right amount of assistance to be useful without being overly advantageous compared to getting fit on a bike or putting effort in on an ebike. Descent speed is not affected by the assistance, on the flat you have to do all the work above 15.5mph and up hill you have a modest advantage, plus 5 or so mph if you put some effort in. Battery range is also affected by how much effort you put in, and the bigger the battery the more it weighs and costs.