Cycling UK campaign - Ask your council for cycle space during lockdown

[mjr]

There will never be separate cycle facilities down narrow streets of terraced houses,

No, but they can be 20mph access-only no-through-motors.

along narrow roads with shops all along them, so cyclists need to have confidence to ride assertively and feel safe everywhere and not be restricted to the minority of roads with cycle facilities.

Do you really believe it's mainly the fault of new cyclists not being assertive?

New towns, new estates, new retail parks and big cities fair enough but one size does not fit all.

Doing those to consistent decent standards would be a good start.

Stick to the discussion, we are debating cycle space during lockdown. Yes 20 mph and no through roads are fine but doesn't give cyclists more road space.

Yes, it does, by removing the through motorists. It's literally part of the lockdown measures. From the announcement link: "some streets could become bike and bus-only while others remain available for motorists. More side streets could be closed to through traffic, to create low-traffic neighbourhoods and reduce rat-running while maintaining access for vehicles."

You introduced the word 'mainly' in relation to assertiveness - please don't create your own argument (again)

Leave aside that word, then: do you really think lack of assertiveness is the fault here?

[pedals2slowly]

We disagree with you, the we being just about everyone.

How can you disagree with me when you don't know the council I am talking about?

I've based it on what do know, what you've told us:

I've been a campaigner here for 30+ years ....It does matter what I think because I have influence

And yet

I can't believe the number of adults still riding on pavements when the road is literally empty.

When you've worked out why those people are still riding on pavements, you might find your campaigning more effective and you could use your influence for good.
EDIT - You're still at it

so no cycle space needed.

So why do you think they're still riding on the pavement

You don't know enough unfortunately.
Can you explain why anybody would ride on the pavement when there are no cars on the road?
I try to stick to facts but I'll copy you and make some uneducated assumption that they ride on the pavement because they always have.
Little bit of education and they'd be fine on the roads, I know I've done it with people and a bit of training transforms their confidence and they can ride anywhere, not just where there is segregated infrastructure

[pedals2slowly]

Leave aside that word, then: do you really think lack of assertiveness is the fault here?

Partially, see it all the time, riding in a submissive manner frequently creates dangerous situations when people who ride bikes don't follow the rules of the road, this creates uncertainty and thus mistakes.
I love seeing Bikeability kids eyeballing drivers and sticking their arms out and controlling the motorists.
Assertiveness comes in many forms, 'No I'm not going to turn left into this side street even though I have priority over you turning right into it, you go first, I don't trust you' allows you to control the motorist by appearing submissive but you are asserting your authority over your own safety.

Adults when trained to cycle safely describe it as transforming. I found it liberating when I got trained a few years ago, thought I was as good as the best on the street, turned out I had loads to learn, and the vast majority of keen, experienced, long time club cyclists I know have a lot to learn as well.
Definitely not enough emphasis on cycle training yet.

[Wanlock Dod]

[Can you explain why anybody would ride on the pavement when there are no cars on the road?

Met Police urges drivers to slow down after catching driver doing 110mph in a 30mph zone

‘Extreme speeding’ up 142 per cent

Seriously tempted myself

Edited to add:
Police cancel speeding fines due to coronavirus

I doubt that kind of thing is helping.

[Pete Owens]

Both the photos in the OP are a lane wide so there should be no issue with moving away from the pavement.

Surely you don't mean this one:

While that would be adequate for a one-way cycle lane this is obviously intended for two-way use as it is on the wrong side of the road. It is clearly nowhere near wide enough for two cyclists to pass each other while keeping 2m apart – and that is before you consider the need to maintain a safe distance from pedestrians. And the rather more substantial barriers actively prevent oncoming cyclist from maintaining social distancing, forcing them into close proximity.

The other photo that was there before showed IIRC a temporary cycle lane marked with cones, thus any cyclist who wanted to move away from the pavement just checks over their shoulder and nips through the cones into the next 'lane' just as they would if there was no cycle lane there at all. Overtaking other cyclists can work in a similar way.

There really is one and only one design criterion that is required for any anything that is installed as a temporary measure during the pandemic. That is for it to be sufficiently spacious to enable people to use it while maintaining social distancing. And not one of the examples in the CTC campaign comes close. If the only way that a cycle lane can be used safely is to ride outside it then that is a failure of epic proportions. And to glibly say that is OK because you can nip through the cones is absurd beyond belief - especially since in this case of a two-way cycleway next to a two-way carriageway that would put you on the wrong side of the road.

I can understand how a segregation enthusiast might instinctively support such a campaign so long as they didn't put any thought into the consequences. But to continue to support these measures even when it is pointed out how they fail to accommodate safe space for physical distancing is diffecult to comprehend.

[mjr]

If the only way that a cycle lane can be used safely is to ride outside it then that is a failure of epic proportions. And to glibly say that is OK because you can nip through the cones is absurd beyond belief - especially since in this case of a two-way cycleway next to a two-way carriageway that would put you on the wrong side of the road.

At the moment, there's little enough traffic I've done exactly that, on an A road, but the opportunity is being missed: motoring is increasing again so it'll be more difficult to do that, but it doesn't matter because walking and cycling is falling so it's likely there'll be no-one to avoid soon!

Cycle lanes that you leave sometimes would only be an epic failure if the purpose was to corral cycling as you repeatedly claim, but not if the purpose is to enable and encourage.

[PH]

I can understand how a segregation enthusiast might instinctively support such a campaign so long as they didn't put any thought into the consequences.

I think I'll get "segregation enthusiast" put on a T shirt, it's as meaningless as any other slogan. I'm an enthusiast for getting people on bikes and giving them whatever they feel they need to do so.

[Oldjohnw]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... o-covid-19

[Jdsk]

NB date.

"Cycling UK prepares for legal challenges to bike lanes' “unreasonable” removal"
https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/cycling-uk-prepares-legal-challenges-bike-lanes-unreasonable-removal

Jonathan

[Pete Owens]

Fortunately Warrington has removed most of the farcilities it installed during the first lockdown.
Worryingly, they have just been awarded another tranche of cash to put in some more.