Junction improvements - Council's obligation to consult ?

[Farrina]

Bit of a long shot

My local Council are shortly to commence major junction improvements (and introduction of traffic lights). Obviously as a cyclist I am keen to explore how I might be affected by such work.

In planning such work, can anyone assist me as to the Council's obligations (if any) to consider the needs of cyclists eg best practice guidelines, type of surveys etc ....

Location is here https://goo.gl/maps/BXwNBz2zjQu9qL7n8

Cheers

[Jdsk]

Good question, and I don't know.

I'd start with:
* The legal advice team at Cycling UK
* A local cycling action group
* The cycling officer in the relevant authority.

Good luck

Jonathan

[Xbigman]

If they are about to start work then they have already had a consultation and you are too late.

For the future you could go to your local councils consultations page and register for email alerts. Be warned you will get emails several times a month even if you filter consultations for just cycling or traffic (councils vary as to what you can filter to). And you'll get alerts for the whole council area not just the area's you ride.
I've had half a dozen dealings with South Glos council now and it's mostly just a massive box ticking exercise and you will be ignored. I did manage to get some of the ruts repaired that appeared in the cycle path (but not the worst section). I was one of those who argued against a cycle lane that wasn't necessary and would have made things worse, and it wasn't built. I also had a frustrating time trying to point out that the local Morrisons had removed some cycle parking where both the council and supermarket manager tried to say they hadn't. Eventually they put some crappy 'V' type things to chain a front wheel to on the wall. Better than nothing I suppose.
I do regret not getting involved in the consultation for the new speed table in Westerleigh. The original proposal was fo two square speed tables that don't effect bikes, but what is now in is a massive one right across the whole road that everyone has to ride over. PITA

The more cyclists who get involved the more our voices will be heard.


Darren

[mjr]

If they are about to start work then they have already had a consultation and you are too late.

Not necessarily. The new guidance allows building before consultation: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... iderations

[Xbigman]

Councils have always had the right to act without a full consultation if they identify a threat to the public. The new guidance lays out the procedure more formally.
My point is still valid. If they are about to start work then any consultation, abbreviated or not, has finished.


Darren

[mjr]

Councils have always had the right to act without a full consultation if they identify a threat to the public. The new guidance lays out the procedure more formally.
My point is still valid. If they are about to start work then any consultation, abbreviated or not, has finished.

That one bit of your point is not completely valid any more: "Authorities may put in place monitoring arrangements, and carry out ongoing consultation once the measure is built."

Welcome to the new normal(!)

In practice, bad government areas/officers can probably still ignore consultation whether it's done before or after a mistake is built, while good areas/officers will make changes to actually improve measures - but you don't know whether cycling has won the postcode lottery unless you play. There's usually very little to lose except some time.

Locally, within a couple of miles, we've:
- a roundabout with a cycleway crossing one arm with about 3 seconds to cross two lanes after checking there was a clear road (visibility rubbish and a roundabout radius enlarged enabling faster cornering). Then you get stuck on a traffic island giving way to three lanes of traffic, where there's rarely a gap. That really is one where it's simpler and safer to rejoin the carriageway and take the lane as you ride across. Consultation happened before it was built and responses were ignored.
- a cycleway terminating on the left corner of the minor road at a T junction when the cycle route turns right. Consultation happened before that was built but that termination was added to the plan afterwards by the safety auditors!
- two roadsigns that had legs planted in mid-cycleway, but were removed after consultation after it was built, which is great. The main difference seems to be that that project had a good officer in charge.

[Xbigman]

There are always follow ups but they are nothing short of box ticking. I think you are talking about what should happen and I'm talking about what does happen. Here's an example.

I recall when 13 sets of speed bumps appeared on a local road. This was in response to 3 accidents involving school children at the same junction over an 18 month period. The council decided to do something about it. The 'consultation' consisted of a small advert in the local free newspaper that the council later admitted they knew no one looked at. In went the speed bumps. It was ridiculous trying to drive down this road, I owned a car at this time so I know. The local garage told me the number of cars coming in with damaged suspensions had rocketed. One resident (a retired lawyer I think) got everyone organised and fought it. After an excruciating long battle they were removed. The council tried everything. They took the average speed at the fastest point of the road before the speed bumps then took the average speed at the slowest part of the road after installation to justify their use. They sent out a questionnaire with questions so one sided it was unanswerable. 'Do you want average speeds on this road to increase to 41 mph'? was one of the questions. One local councillor who had been involved with the local council for over 30 years said he could not recall the town council reversing a decision ever.

Back to the original post. If the council is altering a junction and putting in traffic lights then its in. No follow up consultation is going to change it back. The follow ups will be about timing of lights, road markings, congestion, etc. Not about changing the layout. At least not without some fatalities.



Darren

[pga]

The level of consultation varies from one local highway authority to another. When I was the Oxfordshire Cycling Officer in the 1990s I did cycling audits on highway schemes both at design stage and on completion. I worked alongside the highway engineers which helped. I also encouraged the Council to engage with local cycling groups but this was not widely supported by my colleagues. They tended to have the 'we know what is best' attitude.

In Milton Keynes, as Cycling UK rep,I get notice of rights of way and minor highway changes but not of major highway works which always disadvantage cyclist. I am a member of the MK Cycling Forum which tries to advice the Council but it is hard work. I myself was knocked off my bike by a passing car the first time I rode through a newly safety improved road junction. I was so lucky. I was hit so hard that I flew into the air for a distance and landed on grass.

The Andrew Gilligan Report on Cycling in the Cambridge-MK-Oxford Arc recommended that Milton Keynes has a cycling commissar and that local cyclists should be paid to carry out full time audits on major planning and transport schemes to ensure that cyclists's interests were protected and advanced, Of course nothing has come of it, let alone the £25 million to resurface the Redway cycle network.

It is hard for individual efforts to be effective. Cycling Forums carry more weight. We are making progress in MK but it is a long job especially at this time when how the future is shaped is important. There are big things happening but we need to be part of the process.

[Farrina]

Thanks for all the responses - just a follow up to my original post. In posting I was not expecting to change anything, I was more interested to see if the Council followed the documented procedures.

In fairness this junction (now that a large housing development has been started with consequential increase in traffic volumes) was ripe for the installation of traffic signals (at least the builder is contributing, I believe £800K)

I made contact quite easily with the relevant project manager at Knowsley Council, a Principal Highway Engineer - he was working from home so only had access to some documentation.

Apparently the design of the junction has been outsourced by the Council to a third party

My first question was what facilities were proposed for cyclists - answer advanced stop lines and that was it ...

Second question was did he have detail of traffic volumes (interested in cycling figures as this route is a good short cut to avoid busy local distributor roads) - nope in Council Offices.

My third question was more an observation - in my cycling travels when the opportunity arises I often approach traffic light engineers to prod them to increase the sensitivity of road induction loops (?) Whilst most are accommodating they usually point out that carbon fibre frames are quite a problem (I still ride steel, so that excuse does not work with me).

My question was given this is a new set of lights how has is problem been addressed ?

Answer - "This is not something I’ve heard of but I have referred it Siemens who provide the signal equipment"

I was quite surprised that this was not even on his radar - I'll update all if I hear anything constructive.

I can't but help think that cyclists are still very much an afterthought (if at all) in the grand scheme of things ...