Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby PDQ Mobile » 16 Jun 2020, 10:10am

mikeymo wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:But basically and briefly my position was not changed.


Of course it wasn't. Nobody discusses these sorts of things to learn anything, that would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

Well I read stuff to try to understand at least some of it.
That the agri sector could have benefits from smaller scale, more organic methods and more diversity is a particular drum I have been banging for nearly half a century!!

40 years ago, in the hills of Wales, sheep were so oversubsidised, to the exclusion of much else, it had created a depleted environment and was a particular personal concern.
The EU was to some extent to blame for this but it should be seen in tandem with the greedy UK farming unions.
And various UK local and national Govt bodies.

Things changed in Brussels though.
Pressure from environmental groups, that have some clout there, has led to more emphasis on diversity and sustainability.
((The 3 crop rule so hated by enormous landowner Rees Mogg was an attempt at large scale soil improvement by the EU.
It makes farming just a little bit more "difficult", not just the application of masses of chemical fertilizer for the same crop on and on for decades.))

There will be a chance for UK agriculture to continue that more sustainable trend now.
I am not optimistic.

For example the UK eco bureaucrats have done some rather limited good but progress remains mired in poor policing of schemes though to outright fiddling and corruption.
This, is typical (from today's BBC)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53060474.
It could be surmised as "all talk and no do".

A further point is that many of the consequences of a more organic and sustainable agriculture is that food will cost more, inevitably.
You can use dirt cheap labour and dubious practices in far flung places (Afica?) to reduce this effect but to my mind the long transport distance and the lack of effective controls on production methods outweigh the positives.
It is really just an exporting of our own existing problems.

There are cost benefits in scale.
Any tiny producer that has no niche market knows this.

There are also very significant benefits in having tax and duty free access to relatively near, different climactic zones and soils. Not to mention diversity of produce.

Johnson, liar, shyster and political opportunist that he is, focuses on fish!- the rights to which were sold with UK Govt and fishing industry blessing long ago.
Sold is sold.
They are important international agreements.

Yet Johnson uses the sea and island status of the UK for the same old Faragist (seen him anywhere?) political slogan that it always was, a vision of independence of supply that remains, and will foreseeably remain, a fantasy.

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simonineaston
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby simonineaston » 16 Jun 2020, 10:22am

I've started using my "great British common sense"
Haha! perhaps that's wot the begger intended we should do all along...
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

mikeymo
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby mikeymo » 16 Jun 2020, 1:08pm

simonineaston wrote:
I've started using my "great British common sense"
Haha! perhaps that's wot the begger intended we should do all along...


Of course that's what the government intended. Did you really think that in the middle of a massive health emergency it would be possible, in a few days, to frame a complete set of new laws that would cover every possible situation, and then have the police and the courts enforce them? It was always the case that there would be guidelines that people were expected to follow. And Dominic Cummings did follow them, more or less, with a minor breach for his "am-I-fit-to-drive" expedition. It doesn't make me think any the worse of him.

Of course in the great tradition of the whinging British public, everybody and their dog is bleating on about Dominic Cummings as though he's the worst thing since Goebbels or something. As a matter of fact I think he's got a lot of interesting idea in his blog, although I accept he might not be all that he thinks he is. As I very easily demonstrated, his ideas are not always what you might imagine. Though of course I was accused of being a "clever clogs" when I showed one forum member that his prejudice was misplaced.

I've never voted Conservative, by the way. And probably never will. But Dominic Cummings' actions aren't something that will stop me.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby PDQ Mobile » 16 Jun 2020, 2:22pm

mikeymo wrote:
simonineaston wrote:
I've started using my "great British common sense"
Haha! perhaps that's wot the begger intended we should do all along...


Of course that's what the government intended. Did you really think that in the middle of a massive health emergency it would be possible, in a few days, to frame a complete set of new laws that would cover every possible situation, and then have the police and the courts enforce them? It was always the case that there would be guidelines that people were expected to follow. And Dominic Cummings did follow them, more or less, with a minor breach for his "am-I-fit-to-drive" expedition. It doesn't make me think any the worse of him.

Of course in the great tradition of the whinging British public, everybody and their dog is bleating on about Dominic Cummings as though he's the worst thing since Goebbels or something. As a matter of fact I think he's got a lot of interesting idea in his blog, although I accept he might not be all that he thinks he is. As I very easily demonstrated, his ideas are not always what you might imagine. Though of course I was accused of being a "clever clogs" when I showed one forum member that his prejudice was misplaced.

I've never voted Conservative, by the way. And probably never will. But Dominic Cummings' actions aren't something that will stop me.

It is not really an election issue, this travelling by Cummings business, I agree, although Niall Ferguson (Mr Virus) and the Scottish Health lady did resign for similar misdemeanors.
And a couple of others.

The Russian Report is more interesting as an election issue though.
What we do know is that there was suspicion of Russian interference in both UK General Election campaigns and in the EU Referendum.
We also know that Cummings worked for a fair while in Russia but his actual role is somewhat shrouded.

His position at (the now disbanded) Cambridge Analytica and its influence is better documented.

If we had the, hopefully unredacted, report we would be in a better position to judge, I think you might agree?

The fact that it remains unpublished after so long, and that all is so quiet about it, merely leads suspicious minds into a ever greater lack of complacency!

Complacency being the enemy of a democracy, IMV.
As is being officially "in contemp of Parliament", I'm sure you'll agree!

mikeymo
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby mikeymo » 16 Jun 2020, 2:48pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:As is being officially "in contemp of Parliament", I'm sure you'll agree!


Dominic Cummings' low opinion of many MPs is clear. He holds many of them "in contemp" (sic). Unofficially, that is.

MPs can say what they like. They may think they can summon whoever they like and they'll just coming running. I'm not going to go looking now, but I think the truth is not how you are presenting it. Dominic Cummings' position is that he would present himself, but only if every witness agreed to give testimony under oath. The committee wouldn't agree to that, so he told them where to stuff it. And so would I. Why should he be held to a different standard of honesty to every other witness? Oh, yes, I know, because he's nasty Dominic Cummings, who's been identified by the chattering classes as current bad boy numero uno, this lunchtime. It'll be somebody else in a few weeks.

Usual caveat - I've never voted Conservative.

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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby PDQ Mobile » 16 Jun 2020, 6:34pm

mikeymo wrote:
Dominic Cummings' low opinion of many MPs is clear. He holds many of them "in contemp" (sic). Unofficially, that is.

MPs can say what they like. They may think they can summon whoever they like and they'll just coming running. I'm not going to go looking now, but I think the truth is not how you are presenting it. Dominic Cummings' position is that he would present himself, but only if every witness agreed to give testimony under oath. The committee wouldn't agree to that, so he told them where to stuff it. And so would I. Why should he be held to a different standard of honesty to every other witness? Oh, yes, I know, because he's nasty Dominic Cummings, who's been identified by the chattering classes as current bad boy numero uno, this lunchtime. It'll be somebody else in a few weeks.


I imagine he holds a fair few folk in contempt.
Most ordinary people probably.
Maybe even you?

MP's ask questions that some of us would like to see asked. And answered. I certainly would, what other route is open to me?

If you don't attend then you are rightly held in contempt of Parliament. Simple.
Furthermore why would you not attend unless you had knowledge of something you wished kept hidden from the wider population?
We are talking about General Election influence and possible illegal interference here.

You have chosen not to comment or address the very pertinent issue I raised of the still unpublished Russian Report.
Boris said there was nothing in it.

Hmmm, maybe so, then why not publish it? Can't for the life of me see much reason why not,if Boris is telling the truth, but then truth and Boris don't sit easy together do they?

As for the "chattering classes", who do you consider deserves such a derisive epithet?
I am not chattering class I can assure you. I imagine you think yourself not included either.
Yet any class, any citizen, has a right to know something of the truth? IMV.

I have criticized Cummings's role in much that has taken place in the last few years extensively on here.
I criticized his appointment as advisor too on the contempt grounds,
I thought it extraordinary that a man so contemptuous of Parliament could be top advisor to the PM.
I was not alone in this.
This view all predates any visits he made while an infection risk.

Cummings uses the media all the time for his own ends. It is his remit to spin and influence.
He knows the business inside out.
His wife is editor of the Spectator yet he can still refer to the press as "you lot" when they chase him for fair comment on a serious issue.

In that sense he is not only contemptuous but also a hypocrite of the first order.
Joining a few other notables in the present Govt.

mikeymo
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby mikeymo » 16 Jun 2020, 6:56pm

PDQ Mobile wrote: His wife is editor of the Spectator yet he can still refer to the press as "you lot" when they chase him...


Yes, good point.

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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby chris_suffolk » 16 Jun 2020, 7:01pm

mikeymo wrote:And Dominic Cummings did follow them, more or less, with a minor breach for his "am-I-fit-to-drive" expedition. It doesn't make me think any the worse of him.

Of course in the great tradition of the whinging British public, everybody and their dog is bleating on about Dominic Cummings as though he's the worst thing since Goebbels or something. As a matter of fact I think he's got a lot of interesting idea in his blog, although I accept he might not be all that he thinks he is. As I very easily demonstrated, his ideas are not always what you might imagine. Though of course I was accused of being a "clever clogs" when I showed one forum member that his prejudice was misplaced.

I've never voted Conservative, by the way. And probably never will. But Dominic Cummings' actions aren't something that will stop me.


Perhaps this may change your mind on the man

"Protect the economy, herd immunity and if a few pensioners die, so be it" - Dominic Cummings

If not, then I guess nothing will

mikeymo
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby mikeymo » 16 Jun 2020, 7:02pm

chris_suffolk wrote:
mikeymo wrote:And Dominic Cummings did follow them, more or less, with a minor breach for his "am-I-fit-to-drive" expedition. It doesn't make me think any the worse of him.

Of course in the great tradition of the whinging British public, everybody and their dog is bleating on about Dominic Cummings as though he's the worst thing since Goebbels or something. As a matter of fact I think he's got a lot of interesting idea in his blog, although I accept he might not be all that he thinks he is. As I very easily demonstrated, his ideas are not always what you might imagine. Though of course I was accused of being a "clever clogs" when I showed one forum member that his prejudice was misplaced.

I've never voted Conservative, by the way. And probably never will. But Dominic Cummings' actions aren't something that will stop me.


Perhaps this may change your mind on the man

"Protect the economy, herd immunity and if a few pensioners die, so be it" - Dominic Cummings

If not, then I guess nothing will


God, that's terrible. When did he say that?

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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby chris_suffolk » 16 Jun 2020, 7:23pm

Was in all the papers in mid March - on his Twitter account, though since deleted. Just google it.

So, anybody still want to defend him??????

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philg
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby philg » 16 Jun 2020, 7:51pm

chris_suffolk wrote:Was in all the papers in mid March - on his Twitter account, though since deleted. Just google it.

So, anybody still want to defend him??????

I did Google that exact phrase and the only reference was to one source, of which this was at the top and typical,

Workers Party of Britain
@WorkersPartyGB
Covid19 Care-home crisis.
Without testing, contact tracing and isolation, our elderly and infirm are falling victim. Dominic Cummings: "protect the economy, herd immunity and if a few pensioners die, so be it" Boris Johnson: "Take it on the chin" #CapitalismKills

Would be (genuinely) interested if you produced something with a shred of credibility?
At the time IIRC it was hearsay from an unidentified source

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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby mikeymo » 16 Jun 2020, 8:43pm

chris_suffolk wrote:Was in all the papers in mid March - on his Twitter account, though since deleted. Just google it.


Ah, "just google it". That old chestnut.

You do realise that the we are all controlled by a race of shape shifting lizards who are going to enforce a New World Order? Don't believe me? JUST GOOGLE IT!!!!! You'll probably get more hits, so it must be true.
Last edited by mikeymo on 16 Jun 2020, 8:55pm, edited 1 time in total.

mikeymo
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby mikeymo » 16 Jun 2020, 8:53pm

philg wrote:
chris_suffolk wrote:Was in all the papers in mid March - on his Twitter account, though since deleted. Just google it.

So, anybody still want to defend him??????

I did Google that exact phrase and the only reference was to one source, of which this was at the top and typical,

Workers Party of Britain
@WorkersPartyGB
Covid19 Care-home crisis.
Without testing, contact tracing and isolation, our elderly and infirm are falling victim. Dominic Cummings: "protect the economy, herd immunity and if a few pensioners die, so be it" Boris Johnson: "Take it on the chin" #CapitalismKills

Would be (genuinely) interested if you produced something with a shred of credibility?
At the time IIRC it was hearsay from an unidentified source


If you narrow the search a bit you do get an article from the completely impartial and unpartisan Guardian. Though the original source was that evil Murdoch publication The Sunday Times:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb

"Those present" have been reticent in substantiating their commentary. Which could be because:

1. They are aware of the defamation laws
2. "Those present" don't actually exist.
3. They think that's what was said but had too much to drink to be sure.
4. Boris has told everybody to keep their gobs shut.

Or any combination of the above.

Not sure what this stuff about Twitter is.

But of course, none of this matters in the least. Dominic Cummings is a Very Bad Man, and those who want to carry on saying he's a Very Bad Man want to believe he said a Very Bad Thing. So he must have said it. QED.

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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Jun 2020, 8:58pm

This is ridiculous. If he said it, it is irrelevant that it was reported in the Guardian. Cummings is a self confessed believer in eugenics. In any case, it was first reported in the Times which is owned by Rupert Murdoch.
John

mikeymo
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Re: Liberated by Dominic Cummings!

Postby mikeymo » 16 Jun 2020, 9:02pm

Oldjohnw wrote:This is ridiculous. He said it. It is irrelevant that it was reported in the Guardian. Cummings is a self confessed believer in eugenics.


Yes, you are completely and utterly right. Your totally credible evidence and concrete proof have utterly convinced me.

Still, it's a good thing he changed his mind after listening to the scientists, eh?