thirdcrank wrote:I'm not commenting on the value of these uses of cameras just pointing out that they are seen by petrolheads as controversial.
You bet. And exactly the same types of argument are used as in discussions in these forums about other issues such as helmets and seat belts. In both cases we'd all be better served by sticking to evidence-based approaches.
One of my points is that any evidence in this report is weak and self-serving.
Otherwise, the sponsors of the report could have saved big money reading this forum - especially my stuff (pace Mandy Rice Davies)
There's comment about the disproportionately high representation of HGVs in the casualty stats and the assumption that this is caused by a lack of experience among police. Well I never. Somewhere in my back catalogue of reminiscences, there's a comment about a superintendent in road traffic keeping his HGV driver's licence up-to-date. Now they don't have superintendents, with or without HGV qualifications. See also my exchanges with hexhome on the topic.
No need for complicated procedures and evidence Just put a Constable by every stop sign, she should have plenty to do issuing points for inability to read
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
I've been reminded of this thread by a couple of bits of news recently.
There's an ongoing debate about the dangers of the latest type of "smart" motorway with no hard-shoulder. The transport ministry has been dismissing it but it's not going away. A couple of police "chiefs" AKA police and crime commissioners have been critical and it's been reported that a coroner has passed a case to the CPS with a view to a manslaughter case.
Now Rear Admiral Parr - the lead of the inspection discussed in this thread is apparently claiming pay discrimination
Why do we not have enough police... Really ought to be easily self funding this kind of thing.
And it's not a tax if you can easily avoid it without an accountant.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
irc wrote:I would also make handheld mobile phone use a straight driving ban. Research has proved it is a similar risk to drink driving so the penalties should be similar.
It's looking as if it doesn't matter much whether it's hand held or not... it's the distraction rather than the ergonomics that causes the risk.
And, as always, deterrence depends as much on perceived risk of detection as on penalty.
Jonathan
Why should talking on a hands free mobile be any more distracting than talking to a passenger in the same vehicle. It also seems perfectly legal to use hand held radio microphone sin a car judging by the number of taxi drivers and police officers I've seen using them. Are they any less distracting than a hands free mobile.
No. Deterrence depends far more on the perceived risk of detection. If someone thinks they won't be caught they're not concerned about any penalty.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
irc wrote:I would also make handheld mobile phone use a straight driving ban. Research has proved it is a similar risk to drink driving so the penalties should be similar.
It's looking as if it doesn't matter much whether it's hand held or not... it's the distraction rather than the ergonomics that causes the risk.
And, as always, deterrence depends as much on perceived risk of detection as on penalty.
Why should talking on a hands free mobile be any more distracting than talking to a passenger in the same vehicle.
It's an experimental observation.
The explanation might be that both parties are better at backing off and allowing the driver to concentrate on driving when they're in the car together.
thirdcrank wrote:I've been reminded of this thread by a couple of bits of news recently.
There's an ongoing debate about the dangers of the latest type of "smart" motorway with no hard-shoulder. The transport ministry has been dismissing it but it's not going away. A couple of police "chiefs" AKA police and crime commissioners have been critical and it's been reported that a coroner has passed a case to the CPS with a view to a manslaughter case.
Now Rear Admiral Parr - the lead of the inspection discussed in this thread is apparently claiming pay discrimination
Jdsk wrote:It's looking as if it doesn't matter much whether it's hand held or not... it's the distraction rather than the ergonomics that causes the risk.
And, as always, deterrence depends as much on perceived risk of detection as on penalty.
Why should talking on a hands free mobile be any more distracting than talking to a passenger in the same vehicle.
It's an experimental observation.
The explanation might be that both parties are better at backing off and allowing the driver to concentrate on driving when they're in the car together.
Jonathan
Or just the opposite.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
I've just found a systematic review from 2018. IIUC it shows similar effects of talking on a 'phone and talking to a passenger. That isn't consistent with the previous literature and I don't know what's changed.
Talking to a passenger can be distracting, however passengers are generally better are shutting up where the conditions require some additional concentration.
Also chat with passengers tends to be irrelevant small talk for the most part, phone calls are far more likely to have something that actually requires concentration from the driver.
I recall a web game that was published a couple of years ago that had a driving simulation that required the player to simultaneously listen to a shopping list and pay attention to potential road hazards, it's quite eye opening. Annoyingly I cannot find it.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
I blame these algorithms... who exactly makes them up, anyway? Is there a standard for algorithms? Is there an industry regulator?? Where is it all going to stop???
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
