sustrans cuts routes

Pete Owens
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby Pete Owens » 25 Jul 2020, 11:46pm

pwa wrote:The Bridgend area (close to me) has had a lot of new shared use paths constructed alongside dual carriageways in the last two or three years, all of which are aimed more at utility rather than leisure, and none of which have any Sustrans involvement. They are Local Authority projects. I wonder if Sustrans has much of a role now.


The problem with Bridgend in that case is building massively over engineered local roads in the first place. Thus making the place so hostile for active travel that simply encouraging cyclists to ride on the pavement can be presented as progress - though the real aim is actually to get the pesky cyclists out of the way of "proper" traffic.

The planners are obviously auto-supremacists of the first order if they feel the need to build high speed dual carriageways through a small town of 50000 with zero through traffic since it bypassed by a Motorway.

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mjr
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby mjr » 29 Jul 2020, 2:19pm

I may be speaking on BBC Radio Norfolk about the route cuts after 1715 today.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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ChrisF
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby ChrisF » 30 Jul 2020, 6:46pm

Sustrans has sent me this link https://data-sustrans-uk.opendata.arcgis.com/ which allows you to zoom in and see the status of each individual section of the NCN (e.g. if it's off-road, if it's 'MTB-only'). It also shows the gaps which have appeared in what was beginning to be a 'national' network; short sections which have been removed making the rest of some long-distance routes somewhat pointless.
Chris F, Cornwall

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mjr
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby mjr » 30 Jul 2020, 7:56pm

ChrisF wrote:Sustrans has sent me this link https://data-sustrans-uk.opendata.arcgis.com/ which allows you to zoom in and see the status of each individual section of the NCN (e.g. if it's off-road, if it's 'MTB-only'). It also shows the gaps which have appeared in what was beginning to be a 'national' network; short sections which have been removed making the rest of some long-distance routes somewhat pointless.

Thank you but it's so near and yet so far!
1. The Reclassified Routes doesn't seem to have any indication why sections were reclassified and that's what we really need.
2. We also need a Deleted Routes file similar.
3. The NCN map there disagrees with https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ncn in that data-sustrans-uk contains at least one route now reclassified on the osmaps: which is the real NCN?

Do you have a live contact there you'd ask or shall I email the address on that site?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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ChrisF
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby ChrisF » 31 Jul 2020, 8:05pm

mjr wrote:Thank you but it's so near and yet so far!
1. The Reclassified Routes doesn't seem to have any indication why sections were reclassified and that's what we really need.
2. We also need a Deleted Routes file similar.
3. The NCN map there disagrees with https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ncn in that data-sustrans-uk contains at least one route now reclassified on the osmaps: which is the real NCN?

I agree, there are some discrepancies that I have seen too. I guess it's a WIP.
mjr wrote:Do you have a live contact there you'd ask or shall I email the address on that site?

I have PM'd you with my recent Sustrans correspondence
Chris F, Cornwall

Pete Owens
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby Pete Owens » 1 Aug 2020, 12:14am

Looking at what as been cut in this part of the world, I don't think it will actually make any difference to whether they are signed or not.

They are mostly the county cycleways - recreational scenic tours on country lanes that were promoted by the councils before Sustrans came on the scene and will almost certainly continue to promote and sign in the future. Routes such as the Cheshire Cycleway, Lancashire Cycleway, Yorkshire Dales Cycleway have strong local branding and were put together by local cyclists so tend to make for excellent rides. They were initially allocated regional route numbers (blue squares rather than red ones), but that distinction has seems to have gone recently leading to confusing duplication of numbers. I think it was only last year that the Yorkshire Dales Cycleway acquired and NCN number so it probably hasn't been signed as part of the NCN yet. The Lakes and Dales Loop - which I think is a rebranding of the Cumbria Cycleway hasn't made it onto the NCN in the first place.

I think all these routes will actually benefit from not being associated with Sustrans. They are all marketed as stand-alone recreational cycle tours - which they are very good examples of. They don't try to pretend that they are part of a utility network - since the aren't. And there is no danger of finding yourself in axle deep mud - which is what you would expect if you were to follow Sustrans signage.

AndyK
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby AndyK » 1 Aug 2020, 1:03am

ChrisF wrote:
mjr wrote:Thank you but it's so near and yet so far!
1. The Reclassified Routes doesn't seem to have any indication why sections were reclassified and that's what we really need.
2. We also need a Deleted Routes file similar.
3. The NCN map there disagrees with https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ncn in that data-sustrans-uk contains at least one route now reclassified on the osmaps: which is the real NCN?

I agree, there are some discrepancies that I have seen too. I guess it's a WIP.
mjr wrote:Do you have a live contact there you'd ask or shall I email the address on that site?

I have PM'd you with my recent Sustrans correspondence

If anyone happens to have downloaded a dataset of the whole route network from before the changes, I can load both old and new datasets into QGIS and do a spot-the-difference check to identify the deleted routes.

asbrown1972
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby asbrown1972 » 5 Aug 2020, 6:42pm

Any idea how you can apply to get s route downgraded? I've just ridden part of ncn14, in no way is that suitable to be designated as a cycle route, it's along a fast A road and the surface is only suitable for a mtb with nobbly tyres. The local council are not accepting such reports due to Covid-19 ( and have done sweet fa to improve cycling provision during the period)

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mjr
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby mjr » 5 Aug 2020, 8:46pm

asbrown1972 wrote:Any idea how you can apply to get s route downgraded? I've just ridden part of ncn14, in no way is that suitable to be designated as a cycle route, it's along a fast A road and the surface is only suitable for a mtb with nobbly tyres. The local council are not accepting such reports due to Covid-19 ( and have done sweet fa to improve cycling provision during the period)

Contact your Sustrans regional office but if it's alongside a road, they'll keep it no matter how bad, as far as I can tell. Teenagers won't have to suffer too many fast cars on the NCN, but breaking their legs or bikes with crap surfaces seems fine by Sustrans :(
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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gaz
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby gaz » 5 Aug 2020, 9:52pm

The Network Review map that I have seen for Kent (A4 for whole of county, not especially detailed) does not seem to have any "off-road"* sections rated worse than 'good'. The assessment process placed considerable weighting on "traffic free". There's a huge amount of 'very poor' and 'poor' to be tackled before Sustrans worries about the 'good'.

Having looked hard for it I've spotted a couple of bits of "off-road" rated 'poor' in SE London and Essex. The former I've ridden once in the past few years, I'll put the rating down to the fact it is devoid of signage. The latter I've not seen for 35 years or more, I recall it has steps and a brief streetview suggests it is also unsigned.

*In Sustransian "off-road" simply means not on a motor carriageway. No distinction between shared footways beside an A road, narrow town alleyways or mud/gravel tracks in the countryside.
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

pwa
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Re: sustrans cuts routes

Postby pwa » 6 Aug 2020, 3:52pm

Pete Owens wrote:
pwa wrote:The Bridgend area (close to me) has had a lot of new shared use paths constructed alongside dual carriageways in the last two or three years, all of which are aimed more at utility rather than leisure, and none of which have any Sustrans involvement. They are Local Authority projects. I wonder if Sustrans has much of a role now.


The problem with Bridgend in that case is building massively over engineered local roads in the first place. Thus making the place so hostile for active travel that simply encouraging cyclists to ride on the pavement can be presented as progress - though the real aim is actually to get the pesky cyclists out of the way of "proper" traffic.

The planners are obviously auto-supremacists of the first order if they feel the need to build high speed dual carriageways through a small town of 50000 with zero through traffic since it bypassed by a Motorway.

That might all be true if Bridgend were some new town with new dual carriageways, but the people planning the new cycle routes were probably still at primary school when most of the dual carriageways went in. You start from where you are, not where you would like to be.