17 year old calls us out...

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simonineaston
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17 year old calls us out...

Postby simonineaston » 21 Jul 2020, 4:04pm

Ms Thunberg is 17, not a professional scientist or journalist, but is clear in her mind that the future is bleak. I will be dead before the planet finally implodes - but what are you, dear reader, doing to help avoid the trouble Greta fears is around the corner? And does my age excuse my non-action??
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

col2019
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Location: sheffield

Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby col2019 » 21 Jul 2020, 4:16pm

i feel sorry for the young,nothing will ever get done till its to late money is mans god,and while there is a mad man in charge of the usa nothing will change,one good thing maggie thatcher did was convince ronald regan that co2s were damaging the ozone ,untill we are all willing to give things up nothing will improve,

belgiangoth
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby belgiangoth » 21 Jul 2020, 4:39pm

Things are changing, but much too slow. Even Jeremy Clarkson realises cars are an issue (though he still reckons it's something for scientists to solve).
Sadly there are no simple, cheap or quick solutions and no political party will take charge of explaining to the populace that the must accept a much reduced quality of life in order for their grandchildren to survive.

The youth of today are having it worse and worse every year. When my parents were my age anyone with a university education could pick their job and their salary. 5 years before me you still got grants, 5 years after you got tuition fees. Now university graduates work the checkout counters and will have to give up on most wealthy aspirations if they are to prevent the climate catastrophe that we've been ignoring for at least the last 50 years.

To address the OP:
I don't own or drive a car (and never have).
Gone vegan.
Don't fly (in the last 5 years the only flight I took was to go to my father's funeral).
House is nearly as insulated as it can be (would need external cladding).
Minimise purchasing (I have an ultra low budget for the year and most of what I buy is second hand when I can't re-use or bodge fix).
All the little things (thermostat set @20, energy saving bulbs, 100% renewable tariff).

Left to do:
Solar panels.
Heat Pump & Electric hob.
Get my wife to ditch her car (or go electric).
?

I think it's criminal that the govt haven't rolled out solar on all houses, just like they've rolled out insulation. It will be a necessary step if the country goes electric for transport.
If I had a baby elephant, it would point out that there is no evidence for planing. Then it would eat all my bananas.

Stradageek
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby Stradageek » 21 Jul 2020, 5:29pm

Have brother in Sweden, during the 70's oil crisis the Swedish government said all new houses must have ground source heat pumps. Today's Swedish housing stock is almost all heat pump driven.

All it takes is a brave government, not focused on the next election and/or a post-government executive directorship with the builders who lobbied for heat pumps NOT to be mandated for fear of hitting their profits.

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SimonCelsa
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby SimonCelsa » 21 Jul 2020, 6:35pm

Headlines in the local paper: 'councillor calls for free parking in town centre'. Apparently this will fill all the crappy shops with crappy shoppers and overnight magically undo all the damage caused by the 'lockdown'. Yes, we've had it if these thoughts prevail. Young chap as well.

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simonineaston
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby simonineaston » 21 Jul 2020, 6:41pm

SimonCelsa wrote:Headlines in the local paper: 'councillor calls for free parking in town centre'. Apparently this will fill all the crappy shops with crappy shoppers and overnight magically undo all the damage caused by the 'lockdown'. Yes, we've had it if these thoughts prevail. Young chap as well.
Flippin' words fail me...
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

fastpedaller
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby fastpedaller » 21 Jul 2020, 6:49pm

belgiangoth wrote:I think it's criminal that the govt haven't rolled out solar on all houses, just like they've rolled out insulation. It will be a necessary step if the country goes electric for transport.


Ours faces the wrong way!

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Mick F
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby Mick F » 21 Jul 2020, 8:26pm

fastpedaller wrote:
belgiangoth wrote:I think it's criminal that the govt haven't rolled out solar on all houses, just like they've rolled out insulation. It will be a necessary step if the country goes electric for transport.


Ours faces the wrong way!
Give us a nice grant, and we'll pull our shack of a solid-wall bungalow built with flat huge concrete blocks and solid non-insulate floors, no gas but solid fuel heating, poor water supply ........................

Give us a grant to demolish it, and give us enough dosh to build a modern eco-friendly home please.
Mick F. Cornwall

Carlton green
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby Carlton green » 21 Jul 2020, 9:13pm

simonineaston wrote:Ms Thunberg is 17, not a professional scientist or journalist, but is clear in her mind that the future is bleak. I will be dead before the planet finally implodes - but what are you, dear reader, doing to help avoid the trouble Greta fears is around the corner? And does my age excuse my non-action??


It’s interesting what Ms Thunberg has managed to do with, I suspect, supporting adults to help get the ‘green’ message across. In terms of step change though I think CV19 has really altered our interaction with the planet and I’m hopeful that many of the changes will stick.

What am I going to do? Well I’m not going to wear a hair shirt (that would be pointless and uncomfortable) but I’m going to continue to play my part in the progressive ‘greening’ of the country. So what does that mean in practice, what have I done and what am I doing?

Electricity is off of a green tariff and we use less of it than we used to, more efficient appliances helps as does really looking at uses. My home is primarily fossil fuel heated but various changes since we moved here (including better insulation and a boiler change) must have knocked a third off of our usage, I’d like to go further but I’ve not got the courage and the funds to do so - sometimes you just need to be pleased with what you’ve managed. Our water usage has gone down, we almost invariably shower rather than use the bath and the loos are all dual flush now. I don’t fly or rather I haven’t for a decade and intend not to change that. The family cars have become progressively more fuel efficient models and no larger than we actually need, we also keep cars until they have to be scrapped and don’t have diesels. I cycle when I can and we look at what mileage we do, etc.

So that’s me on a personal level but really what matters most is influencing other people for the better. My children, the next generation, are all ecology minded and one works in that field. My utility cycling is visible to others and I encourage others to cycle too. My smaller and old cars - we could afford better - show that there is no need to keep up with the Jones’. I support my local Transition group (peak oil and move from oil) and shop both ethically and locally when I can, what few investments I have have a green element to them. I buy second hand, which supports that market and stops landfill and I tell other people about the merits of second hand, so an exemplar of that style of living and an ambassador for it too. At some point we’ll get an electric car and we’ll do so despite them, as things stand, not being as good an investment (financially) as a petrol version. Its presence on our drive will help to encourage others to drive electric too and so we’ll be putting social interests before our own financial interests. Indeed the one thing that I think is more important than anything that we as individuals do is to influence others to join us in the green revolution.
Last edited by Carlton green on 21 Jul 2020, 9:51pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby Jdsk » 21 Jul 2020, 9:16pm

Stradageek wrote:Have brother in Sweden, during the 70's oil crisis the Swedish government said all new houses must have ground source heat pumps. Today's Swedish housing stock is almost all heat pump driven.

All it takes is a brave government, not focused on the next election and/or a post-government executive directorship with the builders who lobbied for heat pumps NOT to be mandated for fear of hitting their profits.

Yes, the UK's track record is pathetic. Ground source heat pumps may not be the best solution for all, but the minimum standards for insulation should be much higher.

This was known in the 1960s.

Jonathan

De Sisti
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby De Sisti » 21 Jul 2020, 9:28pm

But she's rich, so should have less to fret about.

(I bet she doesn't give it all away). :wink:

PH
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby PH » 21 Jul 2020, 9:48pm

From the article
The letter argues that the climate and ecological emergency can only be addressed by tackling the underlying “social and racial injustices and oppression that have laid the foundations of our modern world”.

No one in the west is going to vote for that, no one is even going to get the opportunity to, a manifesto that might look like even taking the first step towards it will be vilified by all those with vested interests, which in reality is nearly all of us.
The article also says
Earlier this year the EU unveiled its green new deal proposals, which it said aimed to transform the bloc from a high- to a low-carbon economy without reducing prosperity and while improving people’s quality of life.

It's a lie.
Our only measure of prosperity is growth and that only comes from consumption. Changing what we consume is a way of fudging the periphery. It doesn't touch the issue which is that we're consuming at a level that will destroy the planet.
I wish I had Greta Thunberg's hope and energy, I can't see how it'll change, it's not in the interests of those who might be able to bring that about , so there's no democratic means to make it happen. Which leaves revolution, guess who has all the guns.
I kid myself that I might do a few things to lessen my personal impact, but compared to what's required it's only purpose is to ease my guilt.

belgiangoth
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby belgiangoth » 21 Jul 2020, 10:18pm

It's not that hard to make significant steps - in fact it's the little ones that are the most difficult.

E.g. recycling makes almost no difference to your footprint, but:
stop buying stuff
insulate your house
green tariff
ditch the petrol/diesel car
go vegan
Done.

Yeah, 20 years ago if you told me to go vegan I'd have laughed in your face, but it's all kiddy steps. Try Veganuary, give it up for lent,do a meat-free day a week. Small manageable targets.

Carlton, you make a really good point about nudging people in the right direction and leading by example.
If I had a baby elephant, it would point out that there is no evidence for planing. Then it would eat all my bananas.

Carlton green
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby Carlton green » 21 Jul 2020, 10:30pm

PH wrote:From the article
The letter argues that the climate and ecological emergency can only be addressed by tackling the underlying “social and racial injustices and oppression that have laid the foundations of our modern world”.

No one in the west is going to vote for that, no one is even going to get the opportunity to, a manifesto that might look like even taking the first step towards it will be vilified by all those with vested interests, which in reality is nearly all of us.
The article also says
Earlier this year the EU unveiled its green new deal proposals, which it said aimed to transform the bloc from a high- to a low-carbon economy without reducing prosperity and while improving people’s quality of life.

It's a lie.
Our only measure of prosperity is growth and that only comes from consumption. Changing what we consume is a way of fudging the periphery. It doesn't touch the issue which is that we're consuming at a level that will destroy the planet.
I wish I had Greta Thunberg's hope and energy, I can't see how it'll change, it's not in the interests of those who might be able to bring that about , so there's no democratic means to make it happen. Which leaves revolution, guess who has all the guns.
I kid myself that I might do a few things to lessen my personal impact, but compared to what's required it's only purpose is to ease my guilt.


I wouldn’t wish to be antagonistic but feel that negativity doesn’t help you and doesn’t help the situation either. The simple truth of the matter is that we do have the technical expertise (though not necessarily to manpower) to change the U.K. for the better. Now it is a case of not looking towards individual political parties for change but rather to build the will for change into the British people - have no doubt that the public are ready for it and that political parties will increasingly take ecology on board as public interests demand it.

I’m retired now but when I was in work energy efficiency was important to me and my company. As an employee you can influence things for the better and you might also choose to sacrifice some salary and take that lower paid job in a green or green technology company. My suggestion is simple, never mind if the problem is beyond you and instead try to be some part of the solution or even ‘just’ steps towards to solution; that suggestion applies to your life at work, your life at home and to all other aspects of your life too. Just be whatever part(s) of the solution you can sensibly be.

PH
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Re: 17 year old calls us out...

Postby PH » 21 Jul 2020, 10:56pm

Carlton green wrote:
PH wrote:From the article
The letter argues that the climate and ecological emergency can only be addressed by tackling the underlying “social and racial injustices and oppression that have laid the foundations of our modern world”.

The simple truth of the matter is that we do have the technical expertise (though not necessarily to manpower) to change the U.K. for the better.

And what good will that do? Firstly it isn't a question of technology or manpower, but profit. I was recently reading about the great new VW electric cars, this is a company that's been fiddling it's diesel emissions for a decade, their motivation hasn't changed.
You've quoted what I quoted - but I'm not sure you've grasped it. It's a global crisis that can't be averted without a large degree of economic equalisation. The richest 25% (That's us) consume 12 times as much as the poorest 25%. Just have a think about that, 12 times as much, do you think you are in some way able to address that? Can you grasp how much you'd have to give up to close that gap? If everyone consumed at the rate of the US (And Europe isn't far behind) it would take four worlds to support it. (Figures from memory, but they won't be far out) If the west was to somehow get growth under control, what about the rest of the world? Who's going to tell them they can't have what we do?
Happy retirement, do you have a pension? How do you think that's funded? That's not a personal criticism, more an example of the way it is. The World economy is built on increasing consumer spending, that's what capitalism is, the ability of money to generate money. Obviously consuming some things is better than consuming others, but to have a global effect it would have to be a drastic reduction in overall consumption, it isn't going to happen.