Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Jdsk
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Jdsk » 16 Aug 2020, 11:27am


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Cunobelin
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Aug 2020, 12:03pm

Navara wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Navara wrote:Not a good start!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britains-firs ... 25386.html
Closed after a driver hits a beacon and drives off :roll:

A Driver couldn't cope with a pedestrian crossing.... says more about the driver than the roundabout design!

You're obviously reading between the lines and deciding what you think I meant!
There is no between the lines I wasn't pointing the finger at anything.I was merely stating a fact.....ie "Not a good start" :wink:


Not my intention, it was a comment on the individual driver, following comments locally

Navara
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Navara » 16 Aug 2020, 12:22pm

Cunobelin wrote:
Navara wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:A Driver couldn't cope with a pedestrian crossing.... says more about the driver than the roundabout design!

You're obviously reading between the lines and deciding what you think I meant!
There is no between the lines I wasn't pointing the finger at anything.I was merely stating a fact.....ie "Not a good start" :wink:


Not my intention, it was a comment on the individual driver, following comments locally

I stand corrected,sorry for the presumption! :oops:

Pete Owens
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Pete Owens » 16 Aug 2020, 6:41pm

backnotes wrote:Just to make it more confusing there are two roundabouts on Perne Rd, so a regular one at Cherry Hinton Rd, and the modified one at Radegund Rd which is the one being talked about above. Many / most cyclists seem to stick to the road at the Radegund Rd one.

So, heading north from the hospital, you now encounter 3 different designs of roundabout one after the other. So, a chance to see which design works best, except to do the experiment properly you would ideally want to randomize the sequence in which they are encountered to overcome "order effects"!

Or you could see how they perform in terms of safety on crashmap:
https://www.crashmap.co.uk/
Search for Perne Road Cambridge, select vehicle type as pedal cyclist:
This shows
16 cycles injured at Cherry Hinton Road,
8 at Queen Ediths Way (the one that has just changed) and
2 at Radegund Road the (one that was converted to continental geometry in 2014)
Now select the years 2009-2013 you see:
13 at Cherry Hinton Road (much the same),
8 at Queen Ediths Way (exactly the same) but
14 at Radegund Road the (before it was remodelled)

It looks like the compact geometry at the Radegund Road / Perne Road is protecting two Cambridge cyclists each year from getting hurt.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby atlas_shrugged » 13 Nov 2020, 7:18pm

Cyclist hit by car on this new roundabout:

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... h-19275730

Just reminding readers what I said previously about this new roundabout:

I would not trust the new Fendon Road design for young children or vision impaired. Cranebridge unfortunately has a small percentage of drivers who do not stop. I think the design is better and safer that before, but I would still not feel safe if my 23 year-old daughter used this daily let alone a 5 year-old.

We need to have complete grade-segregation at roundabouts if we are to achieve vision-zero. I doubt safe roundabouts like this, that can be seen in Dornbirn (Austria), are any more expensive to retrofit than the Fendon Road roundabout.
Last edited by atlas_shrugged on 13 Nov 2020, 7:23pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Jdsk » 13 Nov 2020, 7:20pm

The wording in that newspaper article is cautious and neutral... is there another source for "Cyclist hit by car"?

Thanks

Jonathan

atlas_shrugged
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby atlas_shrugged » 13 Nov 2020, 7:32pm

@jdsk

The only way cyclists negotiate this roundabout is on a cycle track on the perimeter that always has priority over motor-vehicles on the road.

Jdsk
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Jdsk » 13 Nov 2020, 7:35pm

Yes... so if a cyclist rode into the back of a car for some reason that would be fairly described as the the cyclist being hit by the car?

Jonathan

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 13 Nov 2020, 8:50pm

There's no information in that report as to where on the roundabout the collision happened or how. It's all very well saying "The only way cyclists negotiate this roundabout is on a cycle track on the perimeter that always has priority over motor-vehicles on the road" but there are always a few (occasionally a lot of) cyclists who refuse to use (on whatever grounds) such infrastructure. But supposing the cyclist was on the red track, we don't know whether, for instance: they were already on the crossing and a driver drove into the side of them; the cyclist and driver arrived at the crossing part of the track at the same time and the driver didn't give way; the cyclist was perhaps stationary in the centre island the driver clipped their wheel; the cyclist, being unsure as to priority (there's no clear indication on the track that I can see from the photo) started to give way, which the driver interpreted as meaning they could drive on, then the cyclist realised they had priority; various other possibilities. The point being not that it was "X's fault or Y's fault" or that "it's a bad design" but that there are many possibilities and little information.

drossall
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby drossall » 14 Nov 2020, 11:47am

Accidents can happen anywhere, and some accidents happen even though they are very unlikely. A single incident is not, in itself, strong evidence of the success or failure of a measure, because of the random nature of events in life. What we need is a change in the pattern - are there more or fewer accidents?

Of course, the challenge then is that one would hope that a single roundabout, even a dangerous one, does not have enough accidents to make it easy to see whether a measure has changed things substantially. It might take years to accumulate a statistically-significant amount of data. But the point remains that accidents can happen regardless of how good measures may be, and so we shouldn't get too drawn into assumptions either way from one incident.

I say this from a neutral perspective. I last visited that roundabout when work was in the early stages, I only went through it previously in quiet times, and I have no direct experience from which to comment.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby atlas_shrugged » 14 Nov 2020, 2:58pm

Deciding who is to blame is a complete waste of everyone's time and money. Prevaricating also does not help the victim or dependents.

What should happen is automatic default liability for vulnerable road users. This roundabout is used by schoolchildren, NHS workers, and commuters etc. Why should they have to play Russian roulette?

We should also design for vision zero. If you look at the design of the Dornbirn roundabout (in Austria) then cyclists and pedestrians use an underpass.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby atlas_shrugged » 14 Nov 2020, 3:14pm

It is no longer reasonable for vulnerable road users to share their infrastructure when you have scum like this driving on the road:

https://news.sky.com/story/man-held-aft ... h-12132218

Just deduct £10M from his insurance and put 3rd party insurance onto fuel.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 14 Nov 2020, 4:21pm

Investigation is about far more than deciding who is to blame. It's about discovering what factors led to the incident and how they could be changed so it doesn't happen again.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Nov 2020, 6:10pm

A single 'accident' at a location probably indicates numerous (hundreds, thousands?) of near misses, emergency stops, sudden changings of course to avoid hitting or being hit
Not to mention 'accidents' that are not reported/recorded
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 14 Nov 2020, 6:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Nov 2020, 6:11pm

atlas_shrugged wrote:It is no longer reasonable for vulnerable road users to share their infrastructure when you have scum like this driving on the road:

https://news.sky.com/story/man-held-aft ... h-12132218

Just deduct £10M from his insurance and put 3rd party insurance onto fuel.

Scum is a suitable word, I have added it to my vocab beside the t-word
Entertainer, idealist, intellectual, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies