Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

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mjr
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby mjr » 11 Aug 2020, 9:38am

Navara wrote:Not a good start!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britains-firs ... 25386.html
Closed after a driver hits a beacon and drives off :roll:

Alternative less snoopy link https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... works-car/

Seems like an excellent start, drawing attention to bad driving, damaging the vehicle of a bad driver and closing the road to motorists while walkers and riders can still pass.

The main bad thing in that report is claiming incorrectly that cyclists don't have "right of way" (priority, they mean) anywhere else.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Navara
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Navara » 11 Aug 2020, 9:51am

mjr wrote:
Navara wrote:Not a good start!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britains-firs ... 25386.html
Closed after a driver hits a beacon and drives off :roll:

Alternative less snoopy link https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... works-car/

I don't know what you mean by that comment?

mjr wrote:Seems like an excellent start, drawing attention to bad driving, damaging the vehicle of a bad driver and closing the road to motorists while walkers and riders can still pass.
The main bad thing in that report is claiming incorrectly that cyclists don't have "right of way" (priority, they mean) anywhere else.

I suppose that depends on how you look at it.
From a cycling point of view then I would tend to agree.
From a motoring point of view,and let's be honest here the media will always side with the motorist,then straight away they're 1-0 up.The "we told you so" etc,etc will follow and the roundabout will be classed as a "danger".Rightly or wrongly that's what will end up happening.It's already happening with some these new "pop-up" cycling lanes as well as the older more established cycle lanes :roll:
I doubt they'll be any more of these built.

gcogger
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby gcogger » 11 Aug 2020, 10:06am

Given that this is a new concept for most motorists, I'd expect to see very large and obvious signs (on entry and exit) saying "GIVE WAY TO CYCLISTS ON ENTRY AND EXIT" or similar. The impression I get (and I could very well be wrong - I've only seen those news reports) is that they're relying on motorists immediately understanding what the priorities are just from the road markings. While that should be OK, it seems to me that making it obvious in plain English would be prudent.
Does anyone know if there is any such signage?

mercalia
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby mercalia » 11 Aug 2020, 11:37am

gcogger wrote:Given that this is a new concept for most motorists, I'd expect to see very large and obvious signs (on entry and exit) saying "GIVE WAY TO CYCLISTS ON ENTRY AND EXIT" or similar. The impression I get (and I could very well be wrong - I've only seen those news reports) is that they're relying on motorists immediately understanding what the priorities are just from the road markings. While that should be OK, it seems to me that making it obvious in plain English would be prudent.
Does anyone know if there is any such signage?


fat chance of that

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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 11 Aug 2020, 12:10pm

It looks to me that you're effectively riding across a zebra crossing. This is hardly a novel concept but does mean you have to check the motor traffic is giving way. There is one arm on which the cycle lane is somewhat separate from the zebra, and this has been treated differently, with give way markings. This is more unusual but it's not the first in the UK.

backnotes
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby backnotes » 11 Aug 2020, 1:33pm

Navara wrote:Not a good start!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britains-firs ... 25386.html
Closed after a driver hits a beacon and drives off :roll:


Not that good an article either. The incident happened 12 days ago, before the roundabout was properly opened. The novel design of the roundabout had less (or no) bearing on the incident than the headline suggests. The beacon was hit by a car that drove off, and a couple of weeks later, and after the roundabout was "opened", they are having a some planned night-time closures to assess and fix the minor damage to the beacon. The actual story here should be about the standard of driving and the failure to stop rather than the novelty of the roundabout.

There's a more balanced coverage in the local press https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... t-18749641

Jdsk
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Jdsk » 11 Aug 2020, 1:36pm

Thanks

Jonathan

thirdcrank
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Aug 2020, 2:30pm

This crash has now made it onto the BBC www which includes this:

The design is prolific in The Netherlands, ....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... e-53736468

I'd be interested to know if this comment is factually correct, bearing in minds the discussion above about cyclist/ motor vehicle priority.

Pete Owens
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Pete Owens » 11 Aug 2020, 3:11pm

Navara wrote:Not a good start!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britains-firs ... 25386.html
Closed after a driver hits a beacon and drives off :roll:


I don't think you can put down motorist crashing into a Belisha beacon as anything to do with the roundabout. Belisha beacons are not at all uncommon in the UK - they are an integral part of all zebra crossings - so it is hardly a case of the motorist thinking "hey what is that post with the strange blinking orange globe on top of it - it must mean I'm supposed to drive into it"

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mjr
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby mjr » 11 Aug 2020, 4:12pm

Navara wrote:
mjr wrote:
Navara wrote:Not a good start!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britains-firs ... 25386.html
Closed after a driver hits a beacon and drives off :roll:

Alternative less snoopy link https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... works-car/

I don't know what you mean by that comment?

uk.yahoo.com redirects to consent.yahoo.com and basically demands that I give wide permission to abuse my personal details before I'm allowed to read anything. Telegraph does not.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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mjr
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby mjr » 11 Aug 2020, 4:21pm

thirdcrank wrote:This crash has now made it onto the BBC www which includes this:

The design is prolific in The Netherlands, ....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... e-53736468

I'd be interested to know if this comment is factually correct, bearing in minds the discussion above about cyclist/ motor vehicle priority.

So try it for yourself. Open Google Maps. Zoom into a town. Zoom into a roundabout (this may be the more difficult step, as they're not as common in towns as here and you want one busy enough for cycleways and central enough for cyclist-priority but not so central it's in a 30kph zone). Click satellite view. Here's my first three:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2632047 ... a=!3m1!1e3
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1263606 ... a=!3m1!1e3
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0902784 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Yep, seems pretty prolific to me, which is also my experience cycling there.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

thirdcrank
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Aug 2020, 4:50pm

Thanks for that oversees tour - all without air travel. ;-)

Navara
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Navara » 11 Aug 2020, 4:57pm

backnotes wrote:
Navara wrote:Not a good start!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britains-firs ... 25386.html
Closed after a driver hits a beacon and drives off :roll:


Not that good an article either. The incident happened 12 days ago, before the roundabout was properly opened. The novel design of the roundabout had less (or no) bearing on the incident than the headline suggests. The beacon was hit by a car that drove off, and a couple of weeks later, and after the roundabout was "opened", they are having a some planned night-time closures to assess and fix the minor damage to the beacon. The actual story here should be about the standard of driving and the failure to stop rather than the novelty of the roundabout.

There's a more balanced coverage in the local press https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... t-18749641[/quote
thirdcrank wrote:This crash has now made it onto the BBC www which includes this:

The design is prolific in The Netherlands, ....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... e-53736468

I'd be interested to know if this comment is factually correct, bearing in minds the discussion above about cyclist/ motor vehicle priority.

So at 12 days old it makes the BBC....more or less proves my point regarding the media and motorists/cyclists

mjr wrote:
Navara wrote:I don't know what you mean by that comment?

uk.yahoo.com redirects to consent.yahoo.com and basically demands that I give wide permission to abuse my personal details before I'm allowed to read anything. Telegraph does not.

Ah OK,strange I use it all the time and get no such demands for permission.I don't click on newspaper links as a rule as they generally fill my screen with pop-ups and paywalls!

Pete Owens
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby Pete Owens » 11 Aug 2020, 5:14pm

thirdcrank wrote:This crash has now made it onto the BBC www which includes this:

The design is prolific in The Netherlands, ....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... e-53736468

I'd be interested to know if this comment is factually correct, bearing in minds the discussion above about cyclist/ motor vehicle priority.


Yes, there are large numbers of roundabouts with cycle paths going round them - some give priority to the main carriageway and others to the cycle path. This is why they were able to reliably compare the safety performance of the different priority arrangements and found that it is significantly more dangerous when the cycle path has priority.

thirdcrank
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Re: Fendon Road Roundabout, Cambridge.

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Aug 2020, 5:21pm

Pete Owens wrote: ... Yes, there are large numbers of roundabouts with cycle paths going round them - some give priority to the main carriageway and others to the cycle path. This is why they were able to reliably compare the safety performance of the different priority arrangements and found that it is significantly more dangerous when the cycle path has priority.


It was the discussion about that higher up that had me inquiring. I suppose I rather naively assumed that once they had established the best design, they would get their paint brushes out on the others.