"Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

pwa
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Re: "Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

Postby pwa » 22 Aug 2020, 9:57am

Any cafe near a road will generate some car traffic, regardless of how the cafe is themed. So if the officials are concerned about potential issues from parking, maybe they are right. Not far from me is a children's play area with swings, etc. Even that attracts folk who arrive by car and park up on a verge. Not a major issue but it illustrates how facilities do attract cars.

Pete Owens
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Re: "Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

Postby Pete Owens » 22 Aug 2020, 3:47pm

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated issue and has long applied to just about every planning decision everywhere in the country and for whatever purpose.

Of course the result of many years autocentric planning such as this an entirely autocentric environment. Each individidual decision seems trivial in itself - just a few more marking spaces here, a bigger junction there, a wider road and so on, but it all adds up. And of course there is the active prohibition of development orientated towards people arriving on foot or by bike - precisely because such development by its very nature is likely to be difficult to access by car.

And of course they never admit that the purpose of all this motor infrastructure is to encourage driving - they try to pretend that all the goodies they shower on the motorists are really intended to benefit the rest of us.

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mjr
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Re: "Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

Postby mjr » 22 Aug 2020, 5:43pm

Pete Owens wrote:Unfortunately, this is not an isolated issue and has long applied to just about every planning decision everywhere in the country and for whatever purpose.

Of course the result of many years autocentric planning such as this an entirely autocentric environment. Each individidual decision seems trivial in itself - just a few more marking spaces here, a bigger junction there, a wider road and so on, but it all adds up. And of course there is the active prohibition of development orientated towards people arriving on foot or by bike - precisely because such development by its very nature is likely to be difficult to access by car.

And of course they never admit that the purpose of all this motor infrastructure is to encourage driving - they try to pretend that all the goodies they shower on the motorists are really intended to benefit the rest of us.

Not entirely. The planning system doesn't have to be run that way. For example, we've had a bit of a mania for so-called brownfield development over the last 15 years or so, which tends to be easy to reach by bike and much more difficult by car, which has been entertaining when seeing the councillors trying to arrive at site meetings, long after myself and the councillors who cycle had reached there. The chairperson made us swear that we hadn't been discussing any of the meeting's business en route! We hadn't, as firstly, there was little need because it was pretty obviously a good bike-friendly development, and secondly, we arrived by two or three different routes, all faster than the car-bound councillors. I think maybe we might have discussed guesses of how long we'd have to stand around waiting for the motorists, but that was as close as we got to discussing the meeting!

Also, the system can do good things like the Parking Standards for Norfolk set out a maximum number of car parking spaces for some types of building, as well as the minimum, plus it sets out a minimum number of bike parking spaces and that they must normally be well-spaced Sheffield stands or better: wheelbenders, dog rings and random fences are no longer acceptable, according to policy.

However, even then, there can still be a gap between theory and practice, with some autocentric officers refusing to apply those standards while making stupid comments like "there are already railings in the vicinity to secure cycles informally" (Kate Lawty, Senior Planner, West Norfolk Borough Council, April 2020) - and so, I curse them with: may their vehicles be stolen from the insecure parking they permitted!

I agree with the earlier comment that the applicant or their agent seems to have missed a trick. They should have made it blatantly clear in every possible document if this was an exceptional development of a cycle cafe, to encourage the officers and councillor-judges to grant an exception to their car parking policies. Otherwise, the bog standard gets applied and bye bye cafe.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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tim-b
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Re: "Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

Postby tim-b » 23 Aug 2020, 6:15am

Hi
On the face of it, it seems an extraordinary rejection, hopefully it will be appealed and given more consideration

I don't think that it's extraordinary...google bikers and look at the images (parking problems). Now google pedal cyclist (few parking problems)
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tim-b
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: "Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Aug 2020, 1:12pm

mjr wrote:plus it sets out a minimum number of bike parking spaces and that they must normally be well-spaced Sheffield stands or better: wheelbenders, dog rings and random fences are no longer acceptable, according to policy.



I'm thinking that I put a couple of "dog ring" anchor points at a new build I am involved in... Allow for various trikes and trailers which don't necessarily fit well against a Sheffield stand to be locked up easily.
They aren't a substitute, but an accompaniment to Sheffield stands.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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mjr
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Re: "Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

Postby mjr » 26 Aug 2020, 1:59pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:I'm thinking that I put a couple of "dog ring" anchor points at a new build I am involved in... Allow for various trikes and trailers which don't necessarily fit well against a Sheffield stand to be locked up easily.
They aren't a substitute, but an accompaniment to Sheffield stands.

That's fine as lightweight extra capacity, but yes, it can't be a substitute that counts towards the cycle parking spaces. A trike or trailer can fairly easily be locked end-on to a Sheffield Stand, but few upright bikes can be D-locked securely to dog rings.
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RickH
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Re: "Welsh planners turn down cycle cafe for lack of car parking spaces"

Postby RickH » 26 Aug 2020, 8:59pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
mjr wrote:plus it sets out a minimum number of bike parking spaces and that they must normally be well-spaced Sheffield stands or better: wheelbenders, dog rings and random fences are no longer acceptable, according to policy.



I'm thinking that I put a couple of "dog ring" anchor points at a new build I am involved in... Allow for various trikes and trailers which don't necessarily fit well against a Sheffield stand to be locked up easily.
They aren't a substitute, but an accompaniment to Sheffield stands.

That reminds me of a story I came across recently (via Twitter!)

Trinity College Dublin installs first disabled bicycle parking facilities

Image