£220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

pwa
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby pwa » 22 Jan 2018, 7:46pm

PH wrote:Just to give one example - Where is the incentive to car share?
If we start with the idea that the only way to get to work is to drive, then that becomes reality.


Close to where the M4 meets the A4061, on the northern edge of Bridgend, every day an informal car park forms on a rough layby. Twenty or thirty cars. It is where people who have started their commute in their own car meet and leave a car behind as they complete their journey in a shared vehicle. This car park is completely informal, created by individuals finding their own better way of doing things. We should be providing positive incentives for this sort of thing, not coming up with punitive measures to punish people without regard to whether they have a real practical choice in how they get to work.

PH
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby PH » 22 Jan 2018, 7:56pm

pwa wrote:We should be providing positive incentives for this sort of thing,

We should yes, but sometimes it needs incentive to make the status quo less attractive as well as the alternative more so.
Four people I work with live roughly 7 miles from work and all within around a mile from each other. All start and finish at the same shift times, all drive their own cars. The running costs are so small they wouldn't consider doing otherwise, if we're going to change this there has to be a disincentive.

pwa
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby pwa » 22 Jan 2018, 8:21pm

PH wrote:
pwa wrote:We should be providing positive incentives for this sort of thing,

We should yes, but sometimes it needs incentive to make the status quo less attractive as well as the alternative more so.
Four people I work with live roughly 7 miles from work and all within around a mile from each other. All start and finish at the same shift times, all drive their own cars. The running costs are so small they wouldn't consider doing otherwise, if we're going to change this there has to be a disincentive.


Disincentives are unpopular with those whose behaviour they impact upon. So to introduce them requires sufficient public backing. That doesn't exist in this case. A widespread programme of charging people for car use would probably go down like the Poll Tax, with the leader responsible being retired PDQ. Hearts and minds is what you need, not people beat into submission.

PH
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby PH » 22 Jan 2018, 8:57pm

pwa wrote:Hearts and minds is what you need, not people beat into submission.

Good luck with that

LollyKat
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby LollyKat » 22 Jan 2018, 10:48pm

pwa wrote: I'm not aware of an employer that charges employees for parking in their own car park.


LollyKat wrote:Our local university sells staff parking permits for about £200 p.a., but they don't guarantee a space. Local parking is very restricted, but public transport is reasonable.

I should add that this is very common among universities, particularly older ones which were built well before the days of cars.

reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jan 2018, 11:25pm

PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:......... I'm not aware of an employer that charges employees for parking in their own car park.

Other than the NHS :?

I'm aware of plenty that don't provide free parking.

You mean employees have to pay or large companies don't provide parking?
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reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jan 2018, 11:30pm

PH wrote:Just to give one example - Where is the incentive to car share?
If we start with the idea that the only way to get to work is to drive, then that becomes reality.

I agree,but some companies and hospital's employees can't car share because of unsocial hours,it's not all simple 9 to 5 hours work in some places of employment.
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reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jan 2018, 11:32pm

PH wrote:
pwa wrote:Hearts and minds is what you need, not people beat into submission.

Good luck with that

It's possible if you treat your workforce as human beings and assets and not like machines as is the UK norm.
Take a look at the way NHS staff is being treated presently and the strain they're being put under due to underfunding,particularly emergency staff such as A&E medical and paramedic staff ,the ones at the sharp end.
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reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jan 2018, 11:38pm

pwa wrote:
PH wrote:Just to give one example - Where is the incentive to car share?
If we start with the idea that the only way to get to work is to drive, then that becomes reality.


Close to where the M4 meets the A4061, on the northern edge of Bridgend, every day an informal car park forms on a rough layby. Twenty or thirty cars. It is where people who have started their commute in their own car meet and leave a car behind as they complete their journey in a shared vehicle. This car park is completely informal, created by individuals finding their own better way of doing things. We should be providing positive incentives for this sort of thing, not coming up with punitive measures to punish people without regard to whether they have a real practical choice in how they get to work.

I agree I see a few such informal car parks up and down the countryside where I travel.
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reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jan 2018, 11:55pm

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Pete Owens
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby Pete Owens » 23 Jan 2018, 12:47am

pwa wrote:For five miles or so.

If you were to ask, I'm sure someone from the Cycling UK forum might be able to suggest to you an environmentally sustainable and healthy means of transport, ideally suited to short journeys of this length. Any ideas folks?

pwa
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby pwa » 23 Jan 2018, 8:24am

Pete Owens wrote:
pwa wrote:For five miles or so.

If you were to ask, I'm sure someone from the Cycling UK forum might be able to suggest to you an environmentally sustainable and healthy means of transport, ideally suited to short journeys of this length. Any ideas folks?


And is that form of transport suitable for the 80 something year old lady, with her newly fitted pacemaker, who is the person I take on that journey? I'm taking my Mum down there later, by car, as I have every day for almost two weeks, for her to spend about seven hours at my Dad's bedside. He has impaired vision and finds it difficult to eat without making a mess, so she helps him.

And when I was at the hospital a few days ago I was talking to a lady aged about 60 who had two restless boys with her, both in school uniform. She was their Grannie and had picked the kids up from school. They had been expecting their Mum, but she had been rushed into hospital with a sudden illness. The boys were clearly upset. Grannie was trying to get them to see their Mum, then she was going to take them to their home to pick up spare clothes, then back to her home for the night.

This is what hospitals are about. Sick people, worried people, people in a vulnerable state. Not people to be despised for their use of what seems to them to be the easiest transport choice at a difficult time in their life. I would expect anyone to do what is easiest in such a situation, and I would not dream of putting obstacles in their way.

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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Jan 2018, 1:05pm

LollyKat wrote:
pwa wrote: I'm not aware of an employer that charges employees for parking in their own car park.


LollyKat wrote:Our local university sells staff parking permits for about £200 p.a., but they don't guarantee a space. Local parking is very restricted, but public transport is reasonable.

I should add that this is very common among universities, particularly older ones which were built well before the days of cars.

Lancaster University, opened 70s I believe has a similar scheme. Public sector too I guess. No guarantee of a space and you have to park a bit of a walk in to some parts. Still permits work out cheaper than pay per day. Although if you aren't coming into uni every day then taking a risk and not paying could typically work out cheaper due to irregular enforcement.

Up to 2/3 days per week you'll save even with getting caught with a find eventually. Autumn rains mean you're unlikely to get caught at all. Only on good days so they enforce parking tickets. Still the permits work out value.

pwa
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby pwa » 23 Jan 2018, 1:14pm

Around here I know of no employer charging employees to park. Schools have free parking for staff. The industrial estates have free parking. Supermarkets and the Ford factory, all free for employees. Things may be different down the road in Cardiff.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 23 Jan 2018, 1:30pm

pwa wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:
pwa wrote:For five miles or so.

If you were to ask, I'm sure someone from the Cycling UK forum might be able to suggest to you an environmentally sustainable and healthy means of transport, ideally suited to short journeys of this length. Any ideas folks?


And is that form of transport suitable for the 80 something year old lady, with her newly fitted pacemaker, who is the person I take on that journey? I'm taking my Mum down there later, by car, as I have every day for almost two weeks, for her to spend about seven hours at my Dad's bedside. He has impaired vision and finds it difficult to eat without making a mess, so she helps him.

And when I was at the hospital a few days ago I was talking to a lady aged about 60 who had two restless boys with her, both in school uniform. She was their Grannie and had picked the kids up from school. They had been expecting their Mum, but she had been rushed into hospital with a sudden illness. The boys were clearly upset. Grannie was trying to get them to see their Mum, then she was going to take them to their home to pick up spare clothes, then back to her home for the night.

This is what hospitals are about. Sick people, worried people, people in a vulnerable state. Not people to be despised for their use of what seems to them to be the easiest transport choice at a difficult time in their life. I would expect anyone to do what is easiest in such a situation, and I would not dream of putting obstacles in their way.


Pretty sure the original conversation was about staff...
Who don't fall into the above categories.

5 miles for a doctor or nurse shouldn't be inconceivable...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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