£220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

brynpoeth
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby brynpoeth » 23 Jan 2018, 10:40pm

reohn2 wrote:
Mark R wrote:
I'd not want to be the one to tell those tired and weary people that they are going to be charged for parking at their place of underpaid work.


Having as I do relatives who work in the NHS, I have to question the premise that they are all underpaid. Compared to those who do similar work in the private sector the pay is considerably higher.

Of course the work of NHS staff deserves the highest respect but if you are looking for an overworked, underpaid section of the workforce - focus on those staffing private nursing homes - they get a much rougher deal.

Back to hospital parking. My personal observation is that the car parks are always full to bursting and that many, many of the staff concerned could easily walk, cycle, car share, use motorcycles, use public transport etc, etc. Making a charge for parking is a disincentive to driving to work, and currently there aren't enough of those.

Whilst I agree some of those who work in the private sector are underpaid,could you give details of those relatives of yours who are overpaid and under worked and the jobs they do?


Me too, I used to be overpaid for not doing much, how may one apply? :wink:
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Mark R
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby Mark R » 23 Jan 2018, 10:40pm

Certainly not underworked and overpaid.

But....to give an example.

Sunday working for NHS = almost double the hourly rate.

For those poor souls who have to work in private nursing homes....sundays, nights....makes no difference. Minimum wage all the way. Working for NHS is better by a country mile.

I suppose the crux is whether having to pay for the parking permit is going to break the bank. I would suggest certainly not. Most people who choose to drive to work in town centre locations will have no choice but to pay for 'pay and display' car parks. So what is all the fuss about?

brynpoeth
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby brynpoeth » 23 Jan 2018, 10:44pm

Lots of people who work in town can park a bit further out for free, then enjoy a few minutes walk to work
There is often plenty of space to park in the inner suburbs
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landsurfer
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby landsurfer » 23 Jan 2018, 10:51pm

Sorry ... £4.23 a week for parking ... really !!!
What is the problem ............ bargain ..
It's just like that, it's just the way it is.
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Mark R
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby Mark R » 23 Jan 2018, 10:56pm

Land is expensive in this country and parking takes up a vast amount of it.....

reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2018, 11:10pm

Mark R wrote:Certainly not underworked and overpaid.

But....to give an example.

Sunday working for NHS = almost double the hourly rate.

For those poor souls who have to work in private nursing homes....sundays, nights....makes no difference. Minimum wage all the way. Working for NHS is better by a country mile.

I suppose the crux is whether having to pay for the parking permit is going to break the bank. I would suggest certainly not. Most people who choose to drive to work in town centre locations will have no choice but to pay for 'pay and display' car parks. So what is all the fuss about?

I'm interested in the overpaid bit of your claim about NHS workers,TBH I have no problem with extra pay for unsocial hours,there was a time when double time was paid to hourly paid workers in almost all industry when it was overtime.
I also have no problem recognising that those who work in private nursing homes are being underpaid,which I think is as diabolical as charging people to park their car at their place of work under the claim that they could all find other convenient means of transport to and from their work,especially when working unsocial hours.
Whether NHS workers can afford the parking fees is totally beside the point,the point being wether it's right and justified that the NHS are right to make that charge or not, I think not YVMV.
BTW according to Google the average salary for a staff nurse in the NHS is £23k to £30k pa according to experience,not a kings ransom,I'm using a staff nurse's salary as its around an average worker in the NHS.

PS, apologies for using the term 'overworked' you didn't use that term and I retract it.
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reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2018, 11:17pm

landsurfer wrote:Sorry ... £4.23 a week for parking ... really !!!
What is the problem ............ bargain ..

Yeah hardly a deterrent to use a car for work is it?
So why bother charging at all?
Or would those in favour of a parking charge rather it be £42.30 pw?

EDIT,some on here would have us believe free NHS staff parking is some kind of perk of the job,I beg to differ with them.
Last edited by reohn2 on 23 Jan 2018, 11:50pm, edited 3 times in total.
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reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2018, 11:20pm

Mark R wrote:Land is expensive in this country and parking takes up a vast amount of it.....

At the rate the NHS is losing nurses there'll be non left and that expensive land which hospitals stand on can be sold off to the private sector!
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reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2018, 11:24pm

brynpoeth wrote:Lots of people who work in town can park a bit further out for free, then enjoy a few minutes walk to work
There is often plenty of space to park in the inner suburbs

I have no problem with out of town hubs with good public transport links,and TBF it's becoming more prevalent in some towns,but not all and there's a problem with unsocial hours transport from those hubs.
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Mark R
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby Mark R » 23 Jan 2018, 11:27pm

PS, apologies for using the term 'overworked' you didn't use that term and I retract it.


I didn't use the word overpaid either!

Questioning whether someone is underpaid doesn't mean I believe they are overpaid (or underworked). I also have no problem with enhanced pay rates for anti social hours, quite the opposite.

The fact is however that large sections of the workforce do not receive any extra pay for working anti social hours. Therefore I believe the 'underpaid' label is incorrect in the context of hospital staff having to pay something for being able to park their cars at work - e.g. they are no less able to pay than workers in other sectors (and in my opinion it would be a very good thing if all employers were required to charge for car parking).

reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2018, 11:39pm

Mark R wrote:
PS, apologies for using the term 'overworked' you didn't use that term and I retract it.


I didn't use the word overpaid either!

Questioning whether someone is underpaid doesn't mean I believe they are overpaid (or underworked). I also have no problem with enhanced pay rates for anti social hours, quite the opposite.

The fact is however that large sections of the workforce do not receive any extra pay for working anti social hours. Therefore I believe the 'underpaid' label is incorrect in the context of hospital staff having to pay something for being able to park their cars at work - e.g. they are no less able to pay than workers in other sectors (and in my opinion it would be a very good thing if all employers were required to charge for car parking).

Perhaps its better if you stick to the subject matter and not muddy the waters by mentioning unsocial pay, underpaid private nursing home staff,etc..
The subject is parking fees for NHS staff and wether it's fair or not.As I posted before IMO I don't think it is YVMV,mine won't.
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Mark R
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby Mark R » 23 Jan 2018, 11:49pm

In case you missed it upthread...the Labour run Nottingham Council does run a workplace parking levy:

http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/blog/better-transport/winning-policy-nottinghams-workplace-parking-levy

The employers are charged and it is up to them whether they absorb the cost or pass it on to their employees who use the parking facilities provided.

A pretty progressive idea IMO. I'm surprised you consider it
diabolical
TBH. You are going to more of this sort of thing. The SNP have proposed it in Scotland. Plenty of people still think it is worth doing something to tackle car supremecy....The NHS is the biggest employer in many areas; that's an awful lot of cars polluting the place up.

reohn2
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby reohn2 » 24 Jan 2018, 12:02am

Mark R wrote:In case you missed it upthread...the Labour run Nottingham Council does run a workplace parking levy:

http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/blog/better-transport/winning-policy-nottinghams-workplace-parking-levy

The employers are charged and it is up to them whether they absorb the cost or pass it on to their employees who use the parking facilities provided.

A pretty progressive idea IMO. I'm surprised you consider it
diabolical
TBH. You are going to more of this sort of thing. The SNP have proposed it in Scotland. Plenty of people still think it is worth doing something to tackle car supremecy....The NHS is the biggest employer in many areas; that's an awful lot of cars polluting the place up.


My whole thrust throughout this thread has been that NHS staff work unsocial hours and sometimes in hospitals sited in out of the way places,not served well by public transport,I gave a couple of examples local to me.
I got involved in the thread because some,(two in particular one claiming I had Daily Mail reader status when I wouldn't light the fire with it)claimed charging for car parking would increase sustainable transport,which is a fallacy unless workplaces,in this case hospitals,were served by good public transport links at fair rates and available to suit staff working unsocial hours,and or good facilities for cyclists in those hospitals.
So yes I do think it's diabolical and counter productive,I also think that NHS staff aren't valued enough in the UK for the job they do.
YVMV.
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Pete Owens
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby Pete Owens » 24 Jan 2018, 2:31am

Actually I compared the whinging motorists posting here to a D***y M**l editorial rather than a reader.

On ANY issue you can pretty much guarantee that they will side with the well off and powerful and bestow victim status on any attempt to restrain the subsidies and privileges that they enjoy. Whether this is home-owners vs social tenants, bosses vs unions... or motorists vs cyclists. Even the most modest charge, restriction, tax.

Now, in the case of transport this translates into a knee jerk support for the sense of entitlement displayed by some of the car-owning classes. Even the most moderate curtailment to the privileges enjoyed by motorists to drive and park wherever they like in the most extreme language. Astonishingly, that sense of entitlement and extreme language is also evident in posters to a cycle campaigning forum of all places - whether it is the outrage expressed in this thread to a modest charge for the use of car parking (as a punishiment), or the increase the charges on polluting vehicles that are poisoning the population (as a ban) - or the frankly farcical attempts to justify car-dependency to a cycling audience ({FFE - family-friendly edit } you might get away with your off-hand dismissal of the practicality of cycling to "alt.petroleheads.org", but do you realise how absurd such a claim sounds here?). If we can see this level of auto-centric thinking here we should hardly be surprised when magistrates routinely accept that that a short curtailment of drivers licence would represent "exceptional hardship."

Specifically in this case we are talking about a public subsidy for car use. Car storage facilities cost money - to acquire the land, to build the facility, to light it, to maintain it and so on. The NHS is funded from taxation so if the cost of this is not met by the users then it is subsidy from by taxpayers. Any such subsidy represents a transfer of resources from people using sustainable means of getting to motorists - and thus a positive incentive to chose the most dangerous, polluting & anti-social means of getting to about.

Now of course once you own a car and are fortunate enough to have this choice available to you it will almost always be more convenient for the owner (especially if car-parking is available at the destination). And those owners will put their own needs above the negative consequences imposed on the population that has to suffer their contribution to pollution, road danger and congestion. This is why we need to take public measures to actively discourage car use. ie going far beyond modest charges for car use, but restricting car parking to blue badge holders. This is particularly true for the NHS, which is bearing the cost of excessive car use, whether this is treating accident victims, people made ill by pollution, or the escalating epidemic of type 2 diabetes brought on be sedentary lifestyles.

pwa
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Re: £220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

Postby pwa » 24 Jan 2018, 4:58am

Pete Owens wrote:Actually I compared the whinging motorists posting here to a D***y M**l editorial rather than a reader.

On ANY issue you can pretty much guarantee that they will side with the well off and powerful and bestow victim status on any attempt to restrain the subsidies and privileges that they enjoy. Whether this is home-owners vs social tenants, bosses vs unions... or motorists vs cyclists. Even the most modest charge, restriction, tax.

Now, in the case of transport this translates into a knee jerk support for the sense of entitlement displayed by some of the car-owning classes. Even the most moderate curtailment to the privileges enjoyed by motorists to drive and park wherever they like in the most extreme language. Astonishingly, that sense of entitlement and extreme language is also evident in posters to a cycle campaigning forum of all places - whether it is the outrage expressed in this thread to a modest charge for the use of car parking (as a punishiment), or the increase the charges on polluting vehicles that are poisoning the population (as a ban) - or the frankly farcical attempts to justify car-dependency to a cycling audience ({FFE - family-friendly edit } you might get away with your off-hand dismissal of the practicality of cycling to "alt.petroleheads.org", but do you realise how absurd such a claim sounds here?). If we can see this level of auto-centric thinking here we should hardly be surprised when magistrates routinely accept that that a short curtailment of drivers licence would represent "exceptional hardship."

Specifically in this case we are talking about a public subsidy for car use. Car storage facilities cost money - to acquire the land, to build the facility, to light it, to maintain it and so on. The NHS is funded from taxation so if the cost of this is not met by the users then it is subsidy from by taxpayers. Any such subsidy represents a transfer of resources from people using sustainable means of getting to motorists - and thus a positive incentive to chose the most dangerous, polluting & anti-social means of getting to about.

Now of course once you own a car and are fortunate enough to have this choice available to you it will almost always be more convenient for the owner (especially if car-parking is available at the destination). And those owners will put their own needs above the negative consequences imposed on the population that has to suffer their contribution to pollution, road danger and congestion. This is why we need to take public measures to actively discourage car use. ie going far beyond modest charges for car use, but restricting car parking to blue badge holders. This is particularly true for the NHS, which is bearing the cost of excessive car use, whether this is treating accident victims, people made ill by pollution, or the escalating epidemic of type 2 diabetes brought on be sedentary lifestyles.


You talk about the spin put on things by the DM, but look at your own language. You talk of "the car owning classes" as if that is some elite group, but in every street I can think of "the car owning classes" is nearly every family with adults who are not too old and infirm to drive. Ordinary people, not just the wealthy. People of all political opinions and people of none. Do you realise how absurd it is to talk about car users as if they are a minority?They, or I should say we, are the majority of adults, the norm.

Maybe car ownership levels are lower in major cities with their dense network of public transport and buses every few minutes but not around here. If I had to get to work by 7am, I'd be at work before the first bus had passed my house. I could, and would, cycle. But some couldn't. Some would be dropping the kids off at the child minder's first. And in our low congestion area, where traffic queues are small, using a car can seem the most practical solution if the journey to work is to turn into a trip to the supermarket on the way home or something like that. Much of the time either my wife or I cycle to work, but one of us ends up taking the car because of the other errands that have to be done on the way there or on the way back. Being the one to cycle is the nice end of it.

At my own local hospital the staff come from a wide area of small towns and villages, some of them former coal mining settlements, not just the central town where the hospital is based. Getting to and from work by public transport or bike could take ages, in comparison to twenty minutes by car. You could be adding more than an hour a day to someone's commuting time. That may not matter to you, but it would matter to them and their family. I don't write people off simply because they commute by car, so it matters to me. What would happen, of course, is that staff would just pay the fee and take home less pay. They would be a bit poorer. That would be the extent of the achievement. Less money for the staff and a bit more to pay for some new trolleys or something. And just about the same number of cars on the road because there is, for many, no practical alternative in this area. Getting from the Princess of Wales Hospital, a mile form the centre of Bridgend, to Kenfig Hill or Gilfach Goch late in the evening will always be a trial for those using public transport.

Your way of speaking about motorists is "them and us" talk. You clearly never drive, but most on this forum do, and don't share your extreme philosophy. You do not have a right to tell other cyclists on a cycling forum what they should or should not think. You represent a strand of thought, which you are free to express and we will take on board, but you are deluded in the extreme if you think most cyclists don't use cars. We do.