£220 per year to park you car at work, the joys of the NHS.

workhard

Postby workhard » 23 Jun 2008, 12:30pm

pigman wrote: But then there'd be the problem of differing terms & conds for new & existing employees.


A fairly common situation in many workplaces these days - think defined benefits vs defined contribution pension schemes, company car schemes, health care packages, etc.. Many employers choose to deal with changes like these in exactly that way - existing employees get one deal, to be continued ad infinitum whislt the newbies get the change. Unless you work for HAL computers in which case you just get a letter saying "From dd/mm/yy nnnnnn has changed if you don't send back the reply slip saying you agree by dd/mm/yy then you will be considered to have resigned" (and they got away with it.)

My sense is that, from the employer perspective, when such differences benefit the employer they are rarely a problem, when they benefit the employee they generally are. (But then I'm a cynic, a Christian Socialist and a trade unionist so I would say that wouldn't I?)

sore thumb
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Postby sore thumb » 23 Jun 2008, 1:05pm

If anyone is interested, I re-posted my original post at the start of this thead as some bad boy got rid of it. :shock: :D

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Postby George Riches » 23 Jun 2008, 1:55pm

According to the Mirror, £24,993,855 was collected from staff for parking at 218 hospitals.

There's a lot of whinging, but if users don't pay for the costs of parking (& the cost of the land for on-site roads needs to be added in) who will?

From the Daily Mail:
"Car parking at most Welsh hospitals will be free from next month [...] the Welsh NHS Confederation said the move would increase financial pressures for cash-strapped NHS trusts."

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Postby pigman » 23 Jun 2008, 3:08pm

George Riches wrote:According to the Mirror, £24,993,855 was collected from staff for parking at 218 hospitals.


Wow, (if its true) that focuses the mind a bit.

thirdcrank
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Postby thirdcrank » 23 Jun 2008, 3:50pm

Now our discussion is moving onto parking for patients. Hospitals have been concentrated into ever bigger units with increasing travel distances for many. Big pressure is put on people to use their own transport, rather than non-emergency ambulances. There is a limit to the number of health conditions that permit cycling / walking to an appointment or surgery.

Quicker patient discharge means that people who once would have got better in hospital, now do so at home but have to get there. Some patients have to make regular visits to hospital over a period of years. Having pushed people back onto their own resources for getting there, hospital mangers now would like to charge people for the privilege.

Of course, if you believe that the typical hospital patient is just an idle scrounger, it's fair to squeeze them till the pips squeak

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hubgearfreak
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Postby hubgearfreak » 23 Jun 2008, 4:08pm

pigman wrote:So apologies and no hard feelings i hope.

But then there'd be the problem of differing terms & conds for new & existing employees.


certainly no hard feelings.
and as for changing T & C, that's no problem in my mind either. at the next round of annual pay negotiations, simply reward the employees with a figure, x, (included as part of the inflationary reward) and the employees who choose to refuse this extra may have a badge that they may choose to display in their motor vehicle. cyclists and pedestrians would end up x better off per annum than those who chose a less sustainable method of arriving at work.
any union that fought such a proposal would be pro motorist & pro pollution...and given that they are there to represent all employees, not just the motoring employees would be wrong to fight the solution.

sore thumb wrote:some bad boy got rid of it. :shock: :D


it was an unwitting, rather than malicious act. 8) ...we all have our off days..and they increase with age :lol:

ianr1950
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Postby ianr1950 » 23 Jun 2008, 4:13pm

[but they have chosen their situation.

as far as i am aware no-one is forced to work where they work, nor forced to live where they live. in a free country we choose these things. and if ones choice includes space hungry cars, why should the employer provide for free the space req'd?

or perhaps extend your idea and have the employer give free parking, free fuel, free motorcars & etc. to the employees who choose to live far from work?[/quote]

That is not always the case. If there are no jobs near where you live that pays enough and you cannot afford to relocate then what is anyone supposed to do.

Sorry, I forgot you can just take any low paid job and be all high and mighty about doing your bit for the environment.

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Postby Sares » 23 Jun 2008, 4:22pm

With regard to people changing travel behaviour, it seems to be a big step- the devil they know is preferrable to the unknown. The company I work for has recently announced that they are relocating their headquarters from a near-motorway-junction location with limited parking to a city-centre location with even less parking. The existing location is quite difficult to reach by public transport (although you could easily live in a nice area nearby) but the new one is a 5 min walk from a main city rail station. Nearly everyone I've talked to about this still plans to drive there, even though they dread the traffic, and for some it is bound to be easier and cheaper to take the train/bus/cycle (it's near a Sustrans route). It's as if they don't actually know how to use other options anymore.

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Postby Cunobelin » 23 Jun 2008, 4:30pm

For once I must disagree with the "work nearer to home.

I am a specialist, I am the only person in my Trust capable and qualified for the post.

When I stared working in this field I was at a site 4 miles from home. Then the job changed and I moved to a second site some 9 miles from home, and a year later combined two sites an 9 an 11 miles from home.

Due to HR and other issues I now cover all three sites and also have meetings regularly at a fourth site.

On one day last year I started at one site at 06:30 and by the finish at 19:00 had attended meetings at all 4 sites and cycled a total of 38 miles (a real hardship on a summers day and on work time:D :D )

With the PFI next year we all settle at a site 9 miles from home.

My job option would be o move to another Trust at 26 and 41 mies away.


With the job changes I had no choice

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Postby Tom Richardson » 23 Jun 2008, 6:09pm

but you wouldn't do that if it wasn't feasible - e.g.if motor fuel cost £50 per gallon - in the same way that people didn't do that before the private motor car and in the same way that (most) people don't commute hundreds of miles every day by helicopter

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lauriematt
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Postby lauriematt » 23 Jun 2008, 7:00pm

our local hospital has just started charging for its car park!!!

its terrible!!! :twisted:

you shouldnt have to pay to park your car, whilst you see an ill friend or relative!!! what does the money go towards??
WHAT DOESNT KILL YOU .... CAN ONLY MAKE YOU STRONGER

workhard

Postby workhard » 23 Jun 2008, 7:28pm

Cunobelin wrote:For once I must disagree with the "work nearer to home.

I am a specialist, I am the only person in my Trust capable and qualified for the post.

When I stared working in this field I was at a site 4 miles from home. Then the job changed and I moved to a second site some 9 miles from home, and a year later combined two sites an 9 an 11 miles from home.

Due to HR and other issues I now cover all three sites and also have meetings regularly at a fourth site.

On one day last year I started at one site at 06:30 and by the finish at 19:00 had attended meetings at all 4 sites and cycled a total of 38 miles (a real hardship on a summers day and on work time:D :D )

With the PFI next year we all settle at a site 9 miles from home.

My job option would be o move to another Trust at 26 and 41 mies away.


With the job changes I had no choice


except to get a job elsewhere maybe and relocate? I know it is a bit harsh but you still had/have a choice in those circumstances, unpalatable though it may be to make it.

When the pits were closed, when the steelworks went. when the shipyards went, when the gunsmiths closed after the handgun ban, when kennels that housed the hunts' dog packs were shut down.... Force majeure maybe but people had to make difficult choices, retrain, relocate, etc. etc..

workhard

Postby workhard » 23 Jun 2008, 7:40pm

Sares wrote:With regard to people changing travel behaviour, it seems to be a big step- the devil they know is preferrable to the unknown. The company I work for has recently announced that they are relocating their headquarters from a near-motorway-junction location with limited parking to a city-centre location with even less parking. The existing location is quite difficult to reach by public transport (although you could easily live in a nice area nearby) but the new one is a 5 min walk from a main city rail station. Nearly everyone I've talked to about this still plans to drive there, even though they dread the traffic, and for some it is bound to be easier and cheaper to take the train/bus/cycle (it's near a Sustrans route). It's as if they don't actually know how to use other options anymore.


Margaret Thatcher once remarked that anybody over the age of 30 who used a bus could consider themselves a failure.

Public transport means surrendering your autonomy to others where as sitting in a car in an urban traffic jam means you are free and on the open road with the wind in your hair.

The car and its unfettered use is tied to people's sense of self-esteem and status like almost no other item people in modern society own, The car is a dream of freedom and independence and a bona fide status symbol. The car maybe holds more importance as a status symbol to most than the 'property' - and how I hate that word in this context - that people live in and that used to be called a 'home'.

At 47, and as a reformed petrol head, I get asked "Why do you drive "that"? (an 11 year old Fiat Cinquecento anti symbol), can't you afford anything better?" almost as often as I get "why do you cycle to work, (11 miles is an awfully long way)?" Most people are baffled by the two choices.

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Cunobelin
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Postby Cunobelin » 23 Jun 2008, 9:47pm

Except I cannot afford to do so socially or financially. Its really catch 22...

If i move to Southampton as I can get closer to tha hospital by a few miles, I would still have to travel to Gosport to care for elderly relations, or do we rip her out of her comfortable social circle and impose our wishes on her?

Which raises a slightly different view... from the patient perspective. If I have a chronic illness, do I need to move when the hospital moves as well?

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Postby ianr1950 » 24 Jun 2008, 10:19am

workhard wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:For once I must disagree with the "work nearer to home.

I am a specialist, I am the only person in my Trust capable and qualified for the post.

When I stared working in this field I was at a site 4 miles from home. Then the job changed and I moved to a second site some 9 miles from home, and a year later combined two sites an 9 an 11 miles from home.

Due to HR and other issues I now cover all three sites and also have meetings regularly at a fourth site.

On one day last year I started at one site at 06:30 and by the finish at 19:00 had attended meetings at all 4 sites and cycled a total of 38 miles (a real hardship on a summers day and on work time:D :D )

With the PFI next year we all settle at a site 9 miles from home.

My job option would be o move to another Trust at 26 and 41 mies away.


With the job changes I had no choice


except to get a job elsewhere maybe and relocate? I know it is a bit harsh but you still had/have a choice in those circumstances, unpalatable though it may be to make it.

When the pits were closed, when the steelworks went. when the shipyards went, when the gunsmiths closed after the handgun ban, when kennels that housed the hunts' dog packs were shut down.... Force majeure maybe but people had to make difficult choices, retrain, relocate, etc. etc..


I just do not see it thst way at all.

It is very easy to say that you can just get a job elsewhere and or relocate.
I have no jobs near me that pay enough for me to be able to keep the roof over my head and feed my family as well as being able to look after elderly parents but hey why should I bother I can just relocate and increase my mortgage to double what it is and live within 5 miles of work but oops sorry that job does not pay enough to keep up with the new mortgage payments so what do I do now?
In theory there may be choices but the practicalities of it is not as easy as some would make out.