Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Pete Owens
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby Pete Owens » 31 Aug 2020, 5:35pm

Xbigman wrote:You are preaching to the converted I'm afraid.

Really - I posted showing how cycle lanes make conditions worse for cyclist - you claim to understand yet still advocate cycle lanes. I didn't think there was anyone left who supported painted cycle lanes. Even the government claimed it will no longer fund them.
The cycle lane on Scott way is perhaps 2 thirds of the width of the new lanes and I've been cut up on it a few times. The new lanes are quite wide enough for cyclists to be away from traffic

How wide exactly?
You need 2.25m to ensure there is enough space for cyclists to be clear of the kerb and for 1.5m passing distance.
and two cyclists can overtake each other in reasonable safety.

And you need 3.5m for that (basically the full width of a normal traffic lane).

ratherbeintobago
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby ratherbeintobago » 31 Aug 2020, 6:36pm

Well, the difference between wands and paint is that the thud drivers hear when they stray into the cycle lane will hopefully be wands rather than cyclists…

ossie
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby ossie » 31 Aug 2020, 7:52pm

mjr wrote:Not only London but there are more there than anywhere else.

Which one's getting heated?



Its getting heated down here in Dorset as well

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/ ... uth-poole/

Some of the decisions are bizarre, it looks like in several cases the council have just blocked off obvious commuting driving short cuts. (based on local knowledge) For example they have blocked a side road that takes the heat off two main commuting links to the town centre. Both commuting links already have adequate cycle provision so these efforts to 'encourage cycling' just don't make sense.

Unfortunately we have an odd council set up at the moment, getting advised by an even odder organisation called BH Active travel.

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gaz
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby gaz » 31 Aug 2020, 10:51pm

Pete Owens wrote:Perhaps you could take a tape measure next time ...

Thanks for the reminder, I'll be surprised if either is even the 1.5m minimum that applied in the guidance when they first went in.

Measured base of wand to kerb, 1.1m :( . Marginal gain?
Last edited by gaz on 1 Sep 2020, 6:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
Missing, presumed fed.

Xbigman
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby Xbigman » 1 Sep 2020, 11:46am

Pete Owens wrote:
Xbigman wrote:You are preaching to the converted I'm afraid.

Really - I posted showing how cycle lanes make conditions worse for cyclist - you claim to understand yet still advocate cycle lanes. I didn't think there was anyone left who supported painted cycle lanes. Even the government claimed it will no longer fund them.
The cycle lane on Scott way is perhaps 2 thirds of the width of the new lanes and I've been cut up on it a few times. The new lanes are quite wide enough for cyclists to be away from traffic

How wide exactly?
You need 2.25m to ensure there is enough space for cyclists to be clear of the kerb and for 1.5m passing distance.
and two cyclists can overtake each other in reasonable safety.

And you need 3.5m for that (basically the full width of a normal traffic lane).


The photo you showed was of a cycle lane that was too narrow. The point being that cars will pass too closely because they think you are safe in another lane, and I completely agree. There are lanes like that in Yate and I've suggested their removal as they make the situation worse.
Your argument (which I didn't completely appreciate until now) appears to be that showing a photo of a narrow cycle lane condemns all cycle lanes to the dustbin. This I think is simply wrong. The new cycle lanes on station road are decent width and reasonably thought out. Prior to there installation there were parking bays down much of the road with double yellow lines in places between the bays. Riding this road was a nightmare. As traffic speeded up cyclists tended to get pushed aside where there were no cars parked and then had to stop and rejoin the flow of traffic. The new layout is vastly superior and it has my full support.
The alternative was to take out the parking and make it a straight forward wide road. The problem being that with a free run it would likely lead to an increase in traffic speeds and the width of the road would mean cars squeezing past cyclists without going over the center line. Not a road I would like to ride on.

You also claim the government no longer funds this type of infrastructure. Well guess who paid for all this?


Darren

ratherbeintobago
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby ratherbeintobago » 1 Sep 2020, 11:49am

We have kind of drifted off topic here…

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LinusR
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby LinusR » 1 Sep 2020, 2:15pm

There has been a very good Low Traffic Neighbourhood created in Islington just east of the Angel area. This already had some traffic calming and some very useful cycling cut-throughs to avoid busy roads. Islington council have greatly improved the area for walking and cycling with just a handful of road closures. Similar improvements have also been made immediately next to this area in Hackney so that you now have a very good linear route of very quiet roads with increasing levels of cycling. Modal share in Hackney is about 7 or 8 percent compared with 2.5 or 3 percent for the whole of London and 2 percent across the UK. Most residents in this area supported the LTN and few drive. The demonstrations in Islington have been organised by a group of London taxi drivers who have organised similar demonstrations elsewhere in London. I'm campaigning for a LTN in my neighbourhood in Camden. I'm hoping the drivers will come out in opposition so I can have my badge of honour!


ratherbeintobago
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby ratherbeintobago » 3 Sep 2020, 10:41am

The green signs are great, aren't they?

Jdsk
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby Jdsk » 20 Sep 2020, 10:24am


mikeymo
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby mikeymo » 20 Sep 2020, 11:46am

Xbigman wrote: It's nice to have the room but I've seen a car go down the lane thinking its a car lane.


Ah, so that's happened has it? Did they carry on, or does it become impossible to drive the full length, or apparent you're in a cycle lane?

There's a new bit of infrastructure near me (Harrogate Road/Leeds Ring Road roundabout) which has a cycle lane with full kerbs, at a turn. I said to my wife the last time we drove through it - "I wonder how long it will be before somebody takes a left onto the cycle lane, a Fiat 500 could get down there easily". I suppose it's a situation that might be unavoidable sometimes, if we want completely separate cycle lanes.

jgurney
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby jgurney » 20 Sep 2020, 12:52pm

Jdsk wrote:Image


Does that imply that riden horses and horse-drawn vehicles are prohibited from that road?

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RickH
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby RickH » 20 Sep 2020, 1:43pm

jgurney wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Image


Does that imply that riden horses and horse-drawn vehicles are prohibited from that road?

I understand that there is another design in the works with additional graphics (which I think may include horses).

I think the original designer just used examples of the more common non-motorised means of getting around to indicate positive message the road is open & only closed to motor vehicles (signed by the official "flying motorbike" sign which should also be present). Some of the areas where these are only have around 40% of households with access to a car so it is important to show that the road is open to the majority.

Jdsk
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby Jdsk » 20 Sep 2020, 1:46pm

jgurney wrote:Does that imply that riden horses and horse-drawn vehicles are prohibited from that road?

No.

RickH wrote:I think the original designer just used examples of the more common non-motorised means of getting around to indicate positive message the road is open & only closed to motor vehicles (signed by the official "flying motorbike" sign which should also be present).

Yes.

Jonathan

jonny_five
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Postby jonny_five » 6 Nov 2020, 1:43pm

They've installed some around us in Catford/Lewisham. It's definitely improved the cycling which is pretty bad around the south circular otherwise. It has made some of the major roads even busier which no doubt gas made the motorists angry about the scheme, although I find it hard to sympathise with that.