Pete Owens wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 11:41am
The entire point of delineaion is to facilitate high speeds - giving drivers the confidence that there is clear space ahead of them and placing the responsibility on pedestrians to keep clear of tha path of the motors rather than drivers looking where they are going.
Removing that deineation is a critical traffic calming feature and key to establishing that as an enviornment that operates on pedestrian rather than vehicle rules
Unfortunately in the real world none of what you say happens. Motor vehicles use their weight, noise and armour to dominate anyway and it's only a tiny fraction of the population who are willing to assert their rights as pedestrians over motor vehicles in such environments, while I am one of those people, I'm very aware that I can only do it because I'm a fully able bodied person with a certain attitude that means I'm both willing to play such games of chicken and have the physical ability to get out of the way in the unlikely event the motor vehicle doesn't yield. Suggest you take a visit to Exhibition Rd if you want to see how this stuff really doesn't work.
That's not to say that nice paving can't ever work, but as I nod to with the 'carrying more than insignificant levels of motor traffic' it needs to be preceded, or concurrent with actual demand management. It works fine on streets that are already quiet (because they serve little transport use) or on those that are made quiet through restriction of motor vehicles.
That the ave de champs elysees is to maintain the central lanes of motor traffic and the 4 lanes presented in the render indicates neither of these apply. As presented it will remain a motor traffic sewer and hostile, survival of the fittest environment.
Not to mention that this is also a significant bus route and a quick look at a map shows there aren't any reasonable alternatives. Pretty paving doesn't tend to stay pretty all that long when faced with heavy vehicles.
Pete Owens wrote: ↑28 Jun 2021, 11:41am
but in a civilised society you should be free to wander care free.
That has to be balanced with the need for people (of all ages and abilities) to get about (ideally not by car). Designating and properly designing a street as pedestrianised is fine, half way house shared space without the demand management to back it up isn't.
As before you seem to be willingly misinterpreting my views as 'auto-supremacist' when it's precisely the opposite.
