Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

MikeF
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by MikeF »

gaz wrote:Some mandatory lanes a few miles from home have had a buff surface applied and wands added. No properties fronting the road so I'm hoping it won't court too much controversy.
IMG_20200827_105748.jpg
I've ridden up both before and after. It's a marginally more comfortable experience now but you're still close to fast moving traffic. Riding down I tended to be outside the lane as it was too narrow. It's been widened a little but I've yet to try it, I may take the trailer.

There's a mini-LTN coming soon near to what used to be my commute, a couple of planters on some minor rat runs and a bit of pop-up cycleway on a main road that's only got a well worn advisory lane at present. It will be interesting to see how that pans out.
That wand and its base should have been placed on the white line and not in the cycle lane reducing its width
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
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mjr
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by mjr »

MikeF wrote:That wand and its base should have been placed on the white line and not in the cycle lane reducing its width

Is there any standard or guidance saying that, though? Else the highwaymen will probably refuse because LTN 1/20 s6.3.6 says "They should be used on
the cyclist side of a mandatory cycle lane marking" and shows two illustrations of planters and posts placed like that.

Of course, the effective width measurement then starts a quarter metre to the left of the left edge of the wand, but the minimum width of 2m (1-way... 3m else) in section 5.5 is rarely provided anyway.
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Stevek76
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by Stevek76 »

jgurney wrote:
Does that imply that riden horses and horse-drawn vehicles are prohibited from that road?


No, the green sign itself is completely unofficial, it's just being used in addition to the rather negative 'road closed' signage that is specced in the TSM. Though horse drawn vehicles beyond a certain width will be physically unable to proceed if the filter is physical (some are camera based to allow emergency vehicles through). Also it might just be me but horses are a fairly rare site in urban areas in my experience... :)

LTNs are a vital part of making cities cycle (and walk) friendly, most side roads in the netherlands and other places have similar treatments, though they tend to favour a maze of one way systems, the net result is the same though, making rat-runs unviable which simultaneously provides quiet low traffic routes for cycling as well as encouraging residents to leave the car behind for short trips by making them much longer. I.e. previously the local shops was a 1km cycle vs a 1km drive: car wins. Now it's a 1km cycle vs a 3km drive.

Also it's worth keeping in mind when reading the objections to these that not allowing through trips through residential areas has been standard since the 50s. Of course, most such housing estates since then are still a problem as they provide poor permeability to both motor vehicles and walk/cycle, building in car dependency. Rather than much better permeability for walk/cycle.
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mikeymo
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by mikeymo »

Stevek76 wrote: Also it might just be me but horses are a fairly rare site in urban areas in my experience... :)


In the small Lancashire town I grew up in, one of the local hard men/jokers/drinkers once led a horse right into the local dance hall. I wish we had had camera phones back then, it was a sight to behold. I think he probably got barred after that.
jonny_five
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by jonny_five »

There was an article on the guardian on LTNs today: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -are-wrong
Jdsk
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by Jdsk »

And a strange one today:

"London hospital trust to pay £250k to install LTN for public health benefits"
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/17/london-hospital-trust-to-pay-250k-to-install-ltn-for-public-health-benefits

Jonathan
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

It’s not the hospital directly, it’s the hospital’s charity.
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RickH
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by RickH »

Jdsk wrote:And a strange one today:

"London hospital trust to pay £250k to install LTN for public health benefits"
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/17/london-hospital-trust-to-pay-250k-to-install-ltn-for-public-health-benefits

Jonathan

I'm not so sure it is that strange looking at the big picture. Illness caused both by air pollution, caused to a significant extent by motor vehicles, and lack of physical activity cost the health service hundreds of millions of pounds each year.
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Mike Sales
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Low-traffic schemes benefit most-deprived Londoners, study finds

Post by Mike Sales »

It is a frequent argument of anti-LTN groups that LTNs divert traffic from leafy, middle class areas to more deprived areas.
This study finds otherwise.

Low-traffic neighbourhoods, which use filters to try to reduce motor traffic on residential streets, do not disproportionately benefit more privileged communities, the most comprehensive study of their rollout so far has concluded.

The research, which examined about 400 filters created in London last year, seemingly demolishes the main argument by opponents of such schemes: that they tend to shunt vehicles from richer residential areas on to roads lived in by more deprived people.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/mar/02/low-traffic-schemes-benefit-most-deprived-londoners-study-finds
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It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
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MikeF
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Re: Low-traffic schemes benefit most-deprived Londoners, study finds

Post by MikeF »

Some will try any reason to maintain their anti cycling attitude including some councillors.
A fairly local pop-up cycle lane was installed recently. The speed limit was also reduced to 20mph, which drivers ignored. Of course the pop-up lane was alleged to be causing congestion. This was measured by the time taken for a council contractor's van to travel the route at 20mph and compare it with the time taken to drive at 30mph. As it took longer it supported the claim that the lane caused congestion.
Now motor traffic, is somewhat heavierat times, at times, it's possible to cycle much of the route as fast as motor vehicles and be even held up by them.
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Jdsk
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by Jdsk »

Guardian article on Living Streets:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-minister

Jonathan
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

That’s all fine, but then they do nothing to compel reluctant councils to do anything.

See the High St Kensington fiasco…
pwa
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by pwa »

Thinking of places locally that I know well, if a Low Traffic Neighbourhood is simply a predominantly residential zone that has bollards installed to prevent through traffic whilst still maintaining vehicle access, that works well if it is done with thought. Access is still needed for deliveries and so forth, and the bollarding should obviously be done where vehicles can turn round, but the concept does work if it is done right. I can think of a few places local to me where rat runs could be eliminated without preventing access to properties for ambulances, deliveries and so forth. And if I lived in those places I would accept any slight inconvenience as the price of some peace and quiet.

But of course it is true that traffic management should include looking at where displaced traffic goes, and how that affects people living there.
ratherbeintobago
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

pwa wrote:I can think of a few places local to me where rat runs could be eliminated without preventing access to properties for ambulances, deliveries and so forth. And if I lived in those places I would accept any slight inconvenience as the price of some peace and quiet.

But of course it is true that traffic management should include looking at where displaced traffic goes, and how that affects people living there.


There’s a lot of frothing going on on social media, but the short answers seem to be that there are a lot of old schemes about that aren’t contentious.

There’s an assumption on the part of the protestors that all the traffic gets redirected onto boundary roads, when a decent chunk goes away, and the boundary roads appear to flow better due to less stop-start as traffic goes into and out of side roads.
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RickH
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Re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods?

Post by RickH »

Here in Bolton, some of hhe folk from Bolton Active Travel Forum started mapping filters that are already there and ended up locating over 900 hundred in the borough, dating back at least to the late 1960s.

Many were installed as part of Housing Improvement Areas where terraced housing stock was improved with inside toilets & baths but also improving the local space around the houses.

They did a presentation on the filters & the history of the 1960s ones as part of Brian Deegan's* "Ideas with Beers" discussions on improving active travel. It is available on YouTube if anyone is interested. It has some interesting quotes from then government ministers that sound remarkably contemporary.

[youtube]2p7MrvZ3vyA[/youtube]

(*Brian is, in some ways, Chris Boardman's sidekick for trying to push through decent infrastructure in Greater Manchester & has been involved with stuff in London for a number of years.)
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